OT: How much is too much for a TB 303?

scottorlans · Post by **scottorlans** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:58 am

Well, I had a 303 and ended up selling it in favor of my 777 which did everything and MORE MORE MORE. Now I have a revolution too which is more limited in scope but nails the 303 sound better. The knobs have greater range though and it has built in switchable overdrive that SCREAMS!!! It's true that it is very nice to hold the actual living legend in your hands, but the novelty does wear off and there are better options. Honestly, I think the Future Retro stuff sounds way better. No, it's not EXACTLY the same, but that's the point. We move forward and use modern gear to innovate and create NEW sounds! Twenty or so years ago someone fiddled with the knobs of a 303 over a house beat and changed the course of music, do you want to just copy that or be the next innovator!

supster · Post by **supster** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:07 am

what a waste

thats total triumph of image over substance at that price. or anything over $100 for that matter.

anybody that actually thinks the tiny difference between the sound of that and the bassline VST is worth the money, ive got a bridge in brooklyn you might be interested in

besides if you cant write a good track/song with it - no matter what it is - its just a vanity plate toy.

thats all that matters in the end, nobody will notice or care whether you used a real 303 or not - except you - and you got ripped off over a grand for the satisfaction

.

supster · Post by **supster** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:11 am

scottorlans wrote: Twenty or so years ago someone fiddled with the knobs of a 303 over a house beat and changed the course of music, do you want to just copy that or be the next innovator!

another really great point.

why do people get so hung up on idolizing trendy gear and even paying ridiculous ( not just inflated: stupid) prices for it?

303 does one sound man. easily emulated. done to death. pffft. dont waste teh money

.

HD1 · Post by **HD1** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:21 am

supster wrote:
scottorlans wrote: why do people get so hung up on idolizing trendy gear and even paying ridiculous ( not just inflated: stupid) prices for it?

303 does one sound man. easily emulated. done to death. pffft. dont waste teh money

.

I think for some people it has something to do with listening to the sounds when you were younger and really you just want to have a part of that sound so you can mess with it yourself.

to each their own, financial costs are quantifiable where as the enjoyment someone can get from a piece of gear or sound that they've wanted for a long time is unquantifiable...

supster · Post by **supster** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:58 am

RopeyPunter wrote:to each their own, financial costs are quantifiable where as the enjoyment someone can get from a piece of gear or sound that they've wanted for a long time is unquantifiable...

true. although - like he said himself when he opened the thread - at least one person and im sure many more worked themselves up into a frenzy to pay an insane amount of money ..

.. then when they got it felt like a chump because .. in reality, beyond the hype .. its just another box that makes noise. in this case one type of very common, overplayed, easily emulated noise.

he asked, so we're telling him straight up

.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:34 pm

The software vs. hardware argument sucks, because people on either side will never give. However, i gotta say that a lot of the people who say software sounds as good probably haven't used much real analog gear. Can software sound as good as a novation? yes, because the novation might as well be software anyway. Can software sound as good as, oh, an arp? I don't think so, *yet*.

I will say that for that much money, there are a lot of great old analog synths you can buy that have a lot more flexability. The 303 is that expensive just because it's a 303.

.lm.

HD1 · Post by **HD1** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:18 pm

heard some sound samples of the 303 modded with devil fish mods. sounds good....dont know if its worth 1200 tho...

maybe x0xb0x is the answer

Q&A · Post by **Q&A** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:49 pm

Does anyone know, and wouldn't mind posting, how many 303's were produced.

I'd like to get a more clear understanding of this 303 phenomenon.

It might be cool to know how many are still out there, but not sure how possible it would be to find that out.

Again, I really don't like the sound of the 303 anyways....well I take that back, I do like how it is used in some tracks, but I really can't understand why it is so expensive. Is it a supply issue? if there was 30,000 more units or maybe say 1,000,000 more units.....I'm sure they wouldn't be over 500 US right? Furthermore, would they be as popular if so many people had them??...I'll stop here.

oh one more thing, regarding the software vs hardware issue....I wish I knew how to make useless arguments disapear.(I'm refering to other threads, as this one is pretty friendly) The things we say reveal much about are motivations as people, artists, whatever..... I have trouble seeing the beauty in puritanical zeal.....But then the reality is: that is something that I just have to deal with.

Buy that 303 man......haha, just kidding..but not really

forge · Post by **forge** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:54 pm

leisuremuffin wrote:The software vs. hardware argument sucks, because people on either side will never give. However, i gotta say that a lot of the people who say software sounds as good probably haven't used much real analog gear. Can software sound as good as a novation? yes, because the novation might as well be software anyway. Can software sound as good as, oh, an arp? I don't think so, *yet*.

I will say that for that much money, there are a lot of great old analog synths you can buy that have a lot more flexability. The 303 is that expensive just because it's a 303.

.lm.

my argument was that if there is a perceivable difference then you can find a way of amking up for it, it should be possible to find out why and go a step further in the whole emulation process and make up for the bits the soft synths dont do - like fattening or warming (which often means dirtying up) to make up for the lack of the real components in the hardware

I remember reading an article in FM a few years ago about Talvin Singh and the making of his album "OK" where he was saying that he plugged his synth into a guitar or bass amp (cant remember what exactly) and then miked it up because he really liked the warmth it added - that would have been a hardware synth too - so even that wasnt warm enough for him and he found a way of making up for it

I'm just saying NI Komplete which is probably about the same price as this 303 has a HUGE arsenal of brilliant sounds and I personally would much rather have that and find some other way to make up for the lack of real hardware circuitry etc if I found it to be a problem

although again it's a matter of taste because normally I like the synthetic, pristine digital sound and I am SO over the sound of a 303 anyway after 16 million years of it

I was using Reaktor and Pro-53 last night in something and I was REALLY, REALLY getting into the sounds you can get out of both, likewise Absynth and FM7 can sound amazing too

I dont know, I think I'd get bored with a 303 pretty quick and would really feel like $1100 was a waste for what you could get for that

HD1 · Post by **HD1** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:56 pm

puritanical zeal ?

i think you need a break from the forums, you've gone insane.

there's a list of reasons hardware is a better choice, not to mention personal preference, you cant be talking about software when you talk about puritanical zeal

Q&A · Post by **Q&A** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:29 pm

RopeyPunter wrote:puritanical zeal ?

i think you need a break from the forums, you've gone insane.

there's a list of reasons hardware is a better choice, not to mention personal preference, you cant be talking about software when you talk about puritanical zeal

You sliced up that sentence...it went something like: I can't find any beauty in puritanical zeal. .... And I said it cuz I mean it. I can't, don't and probably won't...let me be.

A break from the forums....don't be rude guy.

Personal preference is the ONLY reason hardware is a "better" choice.

Forge, how well does NI Komplete work with Ableton? I keep hearing about bugs with NI stuff. I am a huge fan of NI, but I am mos def kind of hesitant to buy a bundle if there are gonna be headaches with bugs.

also, do any of the instruments bundled in Komplete liken to the way the 303 operates? any reaktor ensembles modled after it? how do they sound?

HD1 · Post by **HD1** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:31 pm

Q&A wrote: Personal preference is the ONLY reason hardware is a "better" choice.

all hail, q&a, queen of the sweeping statement.

edit: yes 'I can't find any beauty in puritanical zeal' is what I was addressing, the point remains the same does it not ? the zealots on the side of software are hardly puritanical, they are many things but puritans they are not....

mike holiday · Post by **mike holiday** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:35 pm

Q&A wrote:Does anyone know, and wouldn't mind posting, how many 303's were produced.

10,000

C.S. · Post by **C.S.** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:15 am

I didn't want go into the hardware vs. software debate...

I wanted the 303 (and still do) for the same reason guys in their 40's still collect baseball cards, or comics... it's owning a piece of electronic music history (with a pratical bonus too... you can still use it to create music)

The money isn't really the issue... but at the same time... I want the most value for more dollar as possible. Hence, the question how much is too much for a 303. Someone pointed out the xOxbOx and it looked like a really cool project... so I figured what the heck... might as well get on the waiting list... it isn't as if I need to get my hands on some sort of 303 emulator. Would like to hear what else the Future Retro 777 can do beside acid... because it looks like a mean synth.

I'm just a guy who wants to make some music... digital or analog... as long as it sounds good and I'm having fun... I don't really care.

forge · Post by **forge** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:08 am

Q&A wrote: Forge, how well does NI Komplete work with Ableton? I keep hearing about bugs with NI stuff. I am a huge fan of NI, but I am mos def kind of hesitant to buy a bundle if there are gonna be headaches with bugs.

also, do any of the instruments bundled in Komplete liken to the way the 303 operates? any reaktor ensembles modled after it? how do they sound?

I'm on PC and it works fine, in fact it is the perfect companion

cant speak for mac which is where I believe most of the problems have been

I'm sure there must be a 303 emulation ensemble for reaktor around somewhere there's something like 2500 user ensembles

personally I'm over the 303 sound so I havent looked

But the Pro-53 is an awesome analog baby and you can certainly get some saw or quare wave action in a similar vein - coupled with live's saturator + other fx you can get some mean sounds with it

but like I said there isnt alot you cant do with reaktor