how long did it take you to learn?

guitargal · Post by **guitargal** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:19 am

All the tips and tricks have been helpfull thanks!
really, the internet is so cool that i can learn stuff from people all over the place!

I feel like an idiot sometimes.
i really need someone to work with /show me.
i sit here day after day by myself and know if i had someone show me things my learning would go faster.

the movies were fun...
i should read more of the forum but ah time...

how long have you been using Live?
some of you are so smart i feel like an idiot.

i had the live4 demo and was intimidated... never really opened the program!
then i got live5 for christmas and now 2 months later i have made a small demo cd but there is so much to learn..

i had the amplitube demo and that kicked butt until it expired!
i still have drum problems.
i am a guitarist not a drummer...
some tracks
snap crackle pop
some really loud snaps
vocals sometimes have no volume.

so much to learn.

back in the old days i had a reel to reel
then a 4 track casset
wish i could wake up one day and know the stuff inside out...

hard to be the musician and the engineer at the same time..
sometimes ya just wanna play...

i haven't tried to mic the amp but thought that i would try
what do you think?

from the gray of new england
dd

amo · Post by **amo** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:23 am

Hi,

I like your post very much

And yeah, makes sense.
I think personnaly that Live could be the closest computer application possible to a 4 track: Learn how to use it simply, by recording yourself and quickly composing, and leave production for a later time. You can even get help on production.
That's the biggest mistake in nowadays modern times where everybody has a powerfull studio at home: how good will sound your sound with your 1000 machines and no musical idea to feed it ?
So if you feel the music, I would say learn the simpliest way to record it and to record over it, even with a crappy sound. Once you've got a good track, you'll see.
Does it make sense ?

amo

SubFunk · Post by **SubFunk** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:47 am

very nice post, indeed.

first of all, don't be frustrated. we are all *idiots* YES, what i mean is that you never will finish learning, no matter for how long you do this. and there is no one outhere who knows it all!

i am doing this since over 15years as a profession. (soundengineering / producing) and since about 8 years i do my own mainly electronic based music. i have learned strictly by *learning by doing* with great assistence all the way from very good / talented people.

but still *nearly* everyday, there is something new to be discovered / learned.
it never finishes. specially the more you work with people / musicians together. there is so much to it apart from technical knowledge, that is not written in no book!

feel free to experiement around as much as you can / never give up!!!

and yes it's a wonderfull thing to work together with other people, and learn from each other, or to have a *mentor* for a while. i had the luck that a producer / musician a long time ago took me under his wings (he used to work with people like roger waters) who formed the basis of where i am now.

maybee start of to try to find like minded people in your neighborhood or to apply for an internship at a local studio.

you know, just be open to ALWAYS be able to learn, i am, e.g. far away from knowing everything, and i never will. i keep on learning all the time!

sometimes new things you disvcover or learn are really better / an improvement, sometimes they just have a different aproach and are a matter of taste.
in order to find out, you have to DO.

practise, practise, practise... that's about the best school you cann have.

happy music making.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:52 pm

I'll just cover the last parts.

yeah! it is hard to be the engineer and the musician at the same time. A footpedal to use for triggering record and stop of clips is really helpful. Of course, I don't own one, so when i record my guitar, i put my midi keyboard on the floor and use my toes on it to start and stop recording. kinda stupid trick, but nice if you hadn't thought of it.

micing the amp? Great idea if you have a nice room, nice amp, nice mic, and nice audio interface.

Not sure if this is the kind of thing you wanted to know, but i like to mic an amp close with a shure sm57 slightly off axis. And with some kind of large diaphram condenser about 3 or 4 feet away with omni pattern. I like the 414 the best for this, but it's expensive! Those mixed together make a really nice guitar sound.

.lm.

borg · Post by **borg** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:37 pm

leisuremuffin wrote:i like to mic an amp close with a shure sm57 slightly off axis. And with some kind of large diaphram condenser about 3 or 4 feet away with omni pattern. I like the 414 the best for this, but it's expensive! Those mixed together make a really nice guitar sound.

happy to see guys can still be gentlemen when replying to someone named guitarGAL

but, this guy likes to learn as well... how would this double micing translate to phasing? i mean: you're talking of about 3 feet, which is about 3 ms difference between mic 1 and 2. do you compensate for this, or is this part of the sound.
it was just an impulse question, so i could probably find out myself or google it, but as everyone is in such a generous mode...

ILTK · Post by **ILTK** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:58 pm

It's been a while since I used mics for anything but there is a general 1:3 rule you can use when using mutiple mics to record the same source, the second mic should be 3 times the distance from mic 1 that mic 1 is from the sound source if I remember correctly.

borg · Post by **borg** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:04 pm

yeah, you're right... the 1:3 rule. forgot all about that. thanks!

rikhyray · Post by **rikhyray** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 11:29 pm

Initially I got so frustrated , was ready to sell my Live 4 and upgrade my cubase to ver3. After 2 weeks I was recording/producing with Live, after few months hardly used anything else then Live.
Get the Live Power book, can be any, not necessary 5, just go through it - doing everything along.
I wish Ableton was there earlier, I spent /wasted so much time with logic and Cubase, Live is so much easier, practical , much better for real time musician, instrumentalist , composer.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:00 am

ILTK wrote:It's been a while since I used mics for anything but there is a general 1:3 rule you can use when using mutiple mics to record the same source, the second mic should be 3 times the distance from mic 1 that mic 1 is from the sound source if I remember correctly.

Yep, that's the general rule!

But, it's a good idea to check your phase anyway. Just pan one of the mics hard left and one hard right and then use a phase correlation meter (inspector is a free metering plug in that has one, google it) or do it by ear. If it sounds like the sound is "hollow" in the center, or pushed way out to the edges then it's out of phase. Try flipping the phase on one of the channels and see if it makes the sound seem to snap into the center and become more clear.

.lm.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:03 am

uhhm ,but that won't really apply to the technique i gave with the 414 in omni cause it's gonna be picking up reflections from all over the room and it's not really possible to have the two mics be 180 degrees out of phase.

But you might fool around with mic placement until you get a sound you like.

.lm.

ILTK · Post by **ILTK** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:20 pm

leisuremuffin wrote:But, it's a good idea to check your phase anyway.

Yeah, I'm currently saving up for this baby, (100SA Version) it's pretty sweet.

http://www.tequipment.net/DKAudioMSD100.html

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:01 pm

Wow, that's nice!
Just like the one on the SSL9000G..

.lm.

guitargal · Post by **guitargal** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:44 am

terriffic you all are.. thanks for the wisdom and the engouragement
will keep you posted if i get anything decent on the net for you to listen to.
will work with the mic and amp

i have lived here in the sticks for 15 years and i know no like minded people to bounce ideas off of.
maybe i should go to Europe?

deedee

womoma · Post by **womoma** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:27 am

yeah definatly go to europe- go to dublin. are you hot?
just kiddin.

sorry- kinda got dragged in to the whole ... ah forget it..

Inductive · Post by **Inductive** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:19 pm

About recording guitar at home on the cheap... First off, I dont claim to be a studio engeneer or anything, but I've sure spent a ton of time trying things. The 1:3 rule, yeah... sure, but I think the 'dont record in your bedroom' superceeds it. So just wing it. I've gotten some cool recordings taping an sm58 to the inside of my accustic (the wire just barely touched the high e when I was playing hard and moving) and then sat 2 diffrent realy chreap mics on the floor about 12 inches apart, wrapped in a (still wet from my shower) towel. I panned those two floor mics left and right a little and did some eq'ing to get them to have the sameish volume. The in-the-guitar mic was the one I put a realy small (_realy_ small) amount of reverb on. It acualy ended up sounding realy cool, there may have been phase issues but I never checked with anything but my ears.

I've been known to mic 2-4 diffrent amps with like 3 mics each in the studio and use 75% of the mics for individual effects. Record multitracks, then anything that doesnt sound very good, I usualy dont delete, I push it back into the mix just under the threashold of being able to hear it. I like to think it thickens up the sound a realy small amount. I personaly would rather have a diffrent sound then a great tried and true sound though, so its best to never listen to me :)