MPC vs All softwares mega stellar battle intergalactica!!

[rikhyray]

No computer pc or mac can match midi timing of hardware sequencer old MPCs, Yamahas QY 700 or RS 7000 and now MPC 4000 that rules. Though I have to live with it for practical reasons sometimes have to get hardware seqencer that is in case of Indian or Cuban music/musicians whos timing is far too accurate and the very music depending much on the precision.
I wont even care to discuss it, since these are facts of life, I rather say that someone who does not feel/hear it should not even attemt to deal with any music of rhythmical sophistication, be happy with what he/she does with a computer since such an individual obviously lack sense of rhythm, which though can be trained/learned to some extent is however deeply genetically, culturally dependent.
So science says about them crystals, etc and musicians with their sense of rhythm, if you dont agree = you dont hear it great for you, I wish I woudnt, it is even painfull to hear but let it go, had to get live with it for practical reason. My quarter of a century as pro musician thaught me that it is amazing have refind human ear can be in both intonation and timing aspect.
BTW. the fact that the groove king like Sly Dunbar is MPC man speaks for itself.
So it is not even question is hardware better but practical, can I/you work without it ?

[deckme(N)tal]

i quote you 100%

[eisnein]

shit i always liked the envelopes and filters that the mpcs had....

[noisetonepause]

I wont even care to discuss it, since these are facts of life (and anyone who disagrees has no ear for music at all)

Mate, you need to get some definitions straight (namely what the word 'fact' means) and read the faery tale about the emperor and his clothes before you start with the fucking ad hominems.

[rikhyray]

I wont even care to discuss it, since these are facts of life (and anyone who disagrees has no ear for music at all)

Mate, you need to get some definitions straight (namely what the word 'fact' means) and read the faery tale about the emperor and his clothes before you start with the fucking ad hominems.

Please, though you already showed to be rude and uncivilised, in most cowardly manner ( by abusing my family, my late mother, hidding under fake name in your far away land) have at least a that little bit of respect and decency and never again bother to responde, quote or have anything to do with my person.
Will deeply appreciate

Rikhy Ray

[Sales Dude McBoob]

I wont even care to discuss it, since these are facts of life (and anyone who disagrees has no ear for music at all)

Mate, you need to get some definitions straight (namely what the word 'fact' means) and read the faery tale about the emperor and his clothes before you start with the fucking ad hominems.

Can we stay objective without getting snippy?

[ILTK]

No computer pc or mac can match midi timing of hardware sequencer old MPCs, Yamahas QY 700 or RS 7000 and now MPC 4000 that rules. Though I have to live with it for practical reasons sometimes have to get hardware seqencer that is in case of Indian or Cuban music/musicians whos timing is far too accurate and the very music depending much on the precision.
I wont even care to discuss it, since these are facts of life, I rather say that someone who does not feel/hear it should not even attemt to deal with any music of rhythmical sophistication, be happy with what he/she does with a computer since such an individual obviously lack sense of rhythm, which though can be trained/learned to some extent is however deeply genetically, culturally dependent.
So science says about them crystals, etc and musicians with their sense of rhythm, if you dont agree = you dont hear it great for you, I wish I woudnt, it is even painfull to hear but let it go, had to get live with it for practical reason. My quarter of a century as pro musician thaught me that it is amazing have refind human ear can be in both intonation and timing aspect.
BTW. the fact that the groove king like Sly Dunbar is MPC man speaks for itself.
So it is not even question is hardware better but practical, can I/you work without it ?

Ahahaha, look up the word 'pompous fool' in the 'dick'tionary I think there's a picture of you.

[bermudagold]

Man decknme u done started a lot of these threads but I still havent seen the blind test.....the sound i can buy.....the timing im not sure I'm buying....its either cutting samples without visuals like on the older ones, the lower midi resolution actually helps, or the samples used are loops from real performers with groove already in them.....either way the feel aint comin from the guy hittin the pads its comin from the box (would u actually want that?)......the wikipedia crystal thing was interesting though.....if u can feel the groove and have rythmn I think you can achieve that timing on a DAW......we need the blind tests I outlined in ur last thread.....here is what i posted from last discussion

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the way i understand it,...and this far from gospel.....there are three issues

1) the mpc sound.....the sound people here and revere comes from the ad/da converters in the box that provide a certain sound to your samples that people instantly like....with no tweaking.....people originally thought it was just the mpc lower bit rate and if you used a bit reducer and a compressor in a software DAW like LIVE,...u could achieve this sound.....but most people i know and countless posters on forums say they cant acheive this and thats because u cant emulate akais converters.....,could you with bit reducers, compression, eq, and the analog warmer plugs (saturation{to mimic tape}, artificial harmonics{to mimic vinyl}, amplification overdrive{to mimic pre/power amps}, and delayed phase adjustment of left and right channels{to mimic hardware maximiser/exciters like BBE}; eventually accomplish this in live or another daw?.....maybe.....but people have chosen rather than spend all that time, money, and clock cycles chasing that elusive sound when they can get it from an mpc instantly.......and lots of people want that sound,..can hear it in a blind test.....there is something psychoacoustically pleasing about it.....so if u wanna use both i would record audio into live and not try and bounce midi.....see point 2

2) there is the timing/groove issue.....since daw are sample accurate,...it is probably the mpc timing that is indeed off/strange/special....or some combination of the above.....it gives extra groove to peoples music that apparently wasnt played in......people believe this is because (and i dont know if the new ones have this)....the old ones you werent visually accurately cutting ur samples......so every sample would have a different amount of dead space at the beginning and end of ur sample.....leading to a sort of forced swing as hits would be alternate from being a lil late to a lil early......could u acheive this in a daw?.....u can play in swing/groove because it is a feel,...but u have to have talent(the feel)......the box is not going to add something interesting to it for u by itself ....like the mpc can.....again for many the mpc is an easier route.......again some developers have talked about emulating this with an algorithm to randomly or intelligently add a varying amount of dead space to the beginning or end of samples in a daw before u lay down the pattern with ur piano keyboard or pad midi controller.

3) then there is of course always placebo

[bermudagold]

Here is the basic idea of the test from the last thread.....someone with an mpc and Live set it up.....all my boys with mpc's dont live here

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the old school cats were sampling directly into the box, and cutting the sample in the box without visuals, there were no computers.....hence the theory.....if ur gonna load in samples cut perfectly in a software audio editor, that would render the theory null and void.....that is the test......sample into the mpc both ways.....have it play the same pattern and see if there is a difference and which one "grooves" better to you...that will test that theory.....then take the sample set cut in software,..load in impulse or something and play the same pattern.....then load up another impulse track with those software cut samples and use the exported midi file from the mpc.....listen side by side....that will give you insight into whether and what the mpc is doing to the midi thats not sample cut related....answering the second question.

[rikhyray]

What I wrote before is about hardware midi in general, MPCs swing thing is another story, might be the lower resolution of the old models, in a way quantizing by default or some other factors as described above, very interesting BTW

[dj superflat]

i buy what bermuda's selling (clearly sound is sound -- some people love the sound of old tascam 4 trax, whatever, funky old boxes of all sorts retain their charm (e.g., guitar players and those orange boss distortion pedals)). but also think someone may want to open up the boxes and look around. even slight differences in how signals from pads are processed could affect timing subtly, the way the signal is passed around by the box, etc. because people can hear/sense incredibly subtle differences in rhythm, so just looking at the samples themselves, or even the internal clock, may not be enough. put another, absent identical circuitry, algorithms, everything, why would we think the timing would be consistent where you're dealing with a piece of HW (even slightly specious assumption when dealing with computer systems where SW may be somewhat standard, but soundcards, routing, monitors, all differ, giving different sound).

with no knowledge whatsoever on the topic, i nonetheless suspect it is the reverse. i.e., that the timing is off in a way that's pleasing, just as we like the artificial compression of slamming music to tape rather than the more "accurate" clean digital sound.

[djadonis206]

Very interesting discussion

the timing in the MPC is tighter and more accurate

the swing can be emulated no matter where the samples are cut, recycle, wavelab MPC - they all start in the same place

one thing you can do is take a straight loop at 120 and import into the MPC as a one shot loop

take the same loop and recycle it cutting it every 16 or 8 and import the slices, put it back together accordingly and play the one shot on track 1 and the cut up on track 2 - you most def hear the difference - but that's the swing

which can be achieved in Ableton - I use it all the time and where Ableton goes one up on the MPC is for every clip you can set different beat resolutions - so you can have a staight (no swing) kick clip and you can have 16th on your drum loop and 8th on another loop and 32 on another <---the MPC can't do that

The MPC sends tighter Midi beat clock I know this as well - it sync's midi beat clock to all kinds of stuff rock solid - that CANNOT be said for a computer <---- but I will say I don't know about these new computers but only 2 years ago when I had a MPC the MPC was tighter than the computer

I wouldn't know anything about playing pads because I draw everything in so I'm out of that discussion

peace

visit my Myspace page and leave me a comment

[leisuremuffin]

There may well be a difference in unquantized performances between the mpc and software since there are so few ticks per beat with the mpc, but if we're talking about quantized performances the idea that they're going to be different is just silly.


.lm.

[leisuremuffin]

BTW, Rikhy, i'm surprised you buy into such a silly idea. And also that you like the mpc4000. Have you ever used one?


The mpc's are popular because of interface and workflow. The 4000 is unpopular because while the idea of combining a big polyphonic multisampler with the mpc2000 is great, the execution was horrible. Basic things in the sequencer like the track mute page had their funcionality completly changed for the worse. It became an ugly workstation-like product that mpc fans couldn't get into. If they had done the 4000 better, i'd be using that right now instead of a laptop.


I know lot's of folks who own 2000's and now 1000's, but hardly anyone who owns a 4000. Everyone i know who bought one got rid of it.




.lm.

[rikhyray]

The most interesting for was to deal with musicians who wouldnt know much, neither were interested in technicalities, so I would blind test them and it is all the same, they always complain about the software recodring as disturbing, often considering that they might have made a mistake. It happened only with very best Cuban musicians and South Indians, both cultures based on highly sophisticated rhythms (bata, Yoruba music in Cuba Carnatic classical music).
To make it clear, I am just trying to help those who like to learn, I am not any genius just a worker, studied music 12-14 hours daily ( always to the beat) for 12 years and then performed, lived music almost 30 years. I know next to nothing about them LFOs and filters or whatever electronic stuff so I learn a lot here and other internet sources. But have a little more experience in the field of real time, live music, since I have hardly done anything else my entire life.
When I want to learn how to milk a cow, make beer, cheese or insult and upset other people, religion or cultures will ask the Danes , looks like they are masters of that art.