ableton's unfair copy protection system

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:19 am

unbump

Hatchets McGee · Post by **Hatchets McGee** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:22 am

unsuck my balls

chango blanco · Post by **chango blanco** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:30 pm

darthstephen wrote:i simply can't believe how nasty you guys are. i guess i need pills because i run windows and prefer to have a fresh install once a month. .

Just found this thread...My question would be: Why do you re-install once every month??? What is about your hardware/ software that you would want to reinstall? Are you catching a lot of viruses? Or are you using cracked or demo software that is time sensisitive?

Seriously, what's the REAL problem here? I think it's roots lie in the reason for your monthly reinstall.

darthstephen · Post by **darthstephen** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:48 pm

chango blanco wrote:
darthstephen wrote:i simply can't believe how nasty you guys are. i guess i need pills because i run windows and prefer to have a fresh install once a month. .
Just found this thread...My question would be: Why do you re-install once every month??? What is about your hardware/ software that you would want to reinstall? Are you catching a lot of viruses? Or are you using cracked or demo software that is time sensisitive?

Seriously, what's the REAL problem here? I think it's roots lie in the reason for your monthly reinstall.

i'm not doing anything illegal or wrong. i wouldn't bother purchasing software, if i was going to use cracked stuff. it's just what i've always done since 98se, sort of a pre-emptive maintenance procedure(btw, it's been weeks since my last re-install, aren't you all proud

). i never had an issue, so continued doing it. the real point is not my practices being one example of problems with ableton's system, but the fact that there are a few instances where this can be a problem. see the "switching computers" thread. this is another example. i really like live and have not had any problems with ableton. i'm just trying to bring up an issue that some people are experiencing.

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:00 pm

Rx · Post by Rx » Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:24 am

darthstephen wrote:it's just what i've always done since 98se, sort of a pre-emptive maintenance procedure

even for 98se those are extreme measures. i've never had the serious problems that Windows users have reported, but i've always tried to be careful & informed about what was going on. i started off using 98Lite instead of 98 and have done my best to optimize and uninstall needless things. problems for the most part can be attributed to human error or lack of diligence.

that being said, your approach is rather like the person who gets gas from every gas station (petrol pump?) you see, regardless of how much gas you have or if you acquired gas just 5 minutes before.

darthstephen · Post by **darthstephen** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:37 am

Rx wrote:
darthstephen wrote:it's just what i've always done since 98se, sort of a pre-emptive maintenance procedure
even for 98se those are extreme measures. i've never had the serious problems that Windows users have reported, but i've always tried to be careful & informed about what was going on. i started off using 98Lite instead of 98 and have done my best to optimize and uninstall needless things. problems for the most part can be attributed to human error or lack of diligence.

that being said, your approach is rather like the person who gets gas from every gas station (petrol pump?) you see, regardless of how much gas you have or if you acquired gas just 5 minutes before.

dude
i've grown so tired of defending what i do with my computer. it's really simple. many companies, including native instruments, cycling 74 and db audioware have challenge/response systems that work out far better for the user. they have either 24/7 automated authorization, a single unlock code for a single computer, or (my favorite) an authorization/de-authorization process limiting use to 2 computers. do you actually have a comment on this or why ableton should or shouldn't look at these options? maybe a personal preference? or do you just want to re-iterate the same thing that was said 13 pages ago?

Johnisfaster · Post by **Johnisfaster** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:04 am

whatever ableton is doing is working better than everything else because as far as I know there has never been a crack of ableton that worked forever. all cracks of ableton eventually crap out on the user which makes most of them end up buying the software. so I wouldn't expect them to change anything. because apparently their copy protection is the only one that truely works to be honost. the other stuff you mentioned (ni, cycling, db audioware and many more) have been cracked. ableton is smart. asking them to switch to a copy protection that doesn't work for the other companies that currently use it is like saying "would you mind sticking your hand into this fire for me?"

darthstephen · Post by **darthstephen** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:27 am

Johnisfaster wrote:whatever ableton is doing is working better than everything else because as far as I know there has never been a crack of ableton that worked forever. all cracks of ableton eventually crap out on the user which makes most of them end up buying the software. so I wouldn't expect them to change anything. because apparently their copy protection is the only one that truely works to be honost. the other stuff you mentioned (ni, cycling, db audioware and many more) have been cracked. ableton is smart. asking them to switch to a copy protection that doesn't work for the other companies that currently use it is like saying "would you mind sticking your hand into this fire for me?"

point taken...i'm unaware of max/msp being cracked and thought native instruments had a pretty good handle on the situation as well...it's just a shame we pay the cost for piracy. i just bought a sampleset with kontakt player and i spent a good while looking at the info on native instrument's copy protection. i liked what they offered and bought the product. this is an influence in today's market. knowing the inconvenience of ableton's system, i won't buy their product again. i haven't bought operator for just this reason. either way, the abes lose money. i have to think a company like native instruments takes this into consideration. i have to think ableton did...the right choice to stop pirates, the wrong choice to win over people who really take a look at the protection used. which leads me to another point. you have to tell people up front what they are getting into. ableton does not explain the system completely on this site, because it's simply not competitive. they've taken the user opinion out of the equation and try to just be pleasent when the user experiences a problem. there is no right answer. but there is a balance. i maintain ableton has the most anti-user policy out there, thank goodness at least they are nice about it. i truly wonder if it would even be legal to deny unlocking live unless it could be conclusively and absolutely proven in a court, the illegal misuse of a license.

darthstephen · Post by **darthstephen** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:43 am

Johnisfaster wrote:all cracks of ableton eventually crap out on the user which makes most of them end up buying the software.

no reason a pirate can't just use ghost to make it really simple to keep reseting that time frame. that's not much protection, if you ask me. why inconvenience customers for that? how about just the tiniest bit of faith that people will buy your software because it's the right and legal thing to do. maybe offer incentives to registered users that make people want the authentic software. i think dvd-a is, sort of, an attempt to get consumers to buy albums again with big high quality files and extras that can't be easilly pirated. even bundling live with that samplset by bigfish is an example of an incentive to buy live instead of using a cracked version that does not contain those packs. i say alot more of that and less copy protection that really doesn't work anyway. nobody that has a cracked version of live is attempting to unlock it with ableton. it's just us that would have a problem switching computers or operating systems or whatever.

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:46 am

Hm.

Try calling NI when you have problems. Or sending them an e-mail. Their support is legendary in its shitness.

-Paws

darthstephen · Post by **darthstephen** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:54 am

noisetonepause wrote:Hm.

Try calling NI when you have problems. Or sending them an e-mail. Their support is legendary in its shitness.

-Paws

my point is you don't have to call ni for authorization of a product. it's automated and you manage your license online by authorizing and deauthorizing yourself.

Johnisfaster · Post by **Johnisfaster** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:13 am

"there is no right answer. but there is a balance."

ok I really don't mean offense in saying this but you're speaking of ableton and other companies trying to find balance in what they do.... yet you're the only person in the world reformating your computer monthly.... so... balance?

I know this has been said to you many times but honostly.. how do you speak of balance when your actions are in no way balanced. the companies can only balance so much but they can't anticipate unusual behavior such as yours.
I understand you're feeling inconvenienced and all but you're the one causing the inconvenience.

"no reason a pirate can't just use ghost to make it really simple to keep reseting that time frame"

no reason you can't get ghost and make it really simple for you to never have this problem again. you just said it yourself. really simple.
right?

in the end your argument seems a bit like this to me.

you: "I bought some milk and put it up my nose and it hurt really bad"

them: "really? .... thats weird.... why did you do that?"

you: "well I should be able to. there is no warning anywhere on the milk website saying you can't put it up your nose as many times as you want to"

them: "um... seriously why would you want to do that? don't do it anymore it's not in our policy"

you: "I did it again and it hurt, you should change your policy"

them: "we told you not to do it"

you: "I'm planning on doing it again next month to keep my nose clean"

them: "wow..... this really isn't covered in our policy at all"

you: "this is so unfair. I'm going to start a thread on your forum about how unfair this is, a person has every right in the world to put milk up their nose as many times as they want to. other companies let me do it over and over again. I'll never buy your milk again"

Johnisfaster · Post by **Johnisfaster** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:15 am

sorry if that was harsh, I'm not trying to make you feel bad stephen I'm just trying to show you how absurd it is really. trying to help your perspective of the problem.

darthstephen · Post by **darthstephen** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:15 am

Johnisfaster wrote:sorry if that was harsh, I'm not trying to make you feel bad stephen I'm just trying to show you how absurd it is really. trying to help your perspective of the problem.

i'm not the only person out there who has a problem with copy protection. the only thing that is absurd is continually deflecting the real issue. if i owned live a few years and went past the two unlocks on a friday night and was out live an entire weekend, i'd be just as fustrated. i guarentee ableton has had an upset email from more than a few customers about this. frankly, ableton will grow as a company and will not be able to handle these sort of requests that they are obligating themselves to handle. at some point they will have to automate...i suggest an activate/deactivate situation that allows customers to manage the software as per the license agreement. not to have a license agreement and step all over it with an inefficient and clumsy system which doesn't actually allow you to operate within the license agreement without further permission from the company. it is fundamentally wrong. when someone goes without live for a weekend because ableton is closed and can not offer an unlock, they are breaking the license agreement. period. whether or not people can see past my more extreme situation to the actual problem is not for me to continue to debate.

out.