We said the exact same thing there..Machinesworking wrote:BTW the jews I know are not at all for Israel's actions towards the palestinians. They all see it as if the group consciousness of Israel decided to become the abuser, instead of the abused.
So is the US, so what. That's what the blacklist is for. To foster change. That's what Israel does. It continues to work towards a more humanitarian way of dealing with issues, and balancing it's own security issues as well. It's not a black and white deal. Change takes time to occur.Machinesworking wrote: Another thing, Israel has been on the blacklist for human rights violations for a long time,
That's not necessarily certain either. Ben-Gurion postulated on this as well as Moshe Dayan, and both of them were in agreement that controlling another population was not in the interest of Israeli national security. Ariel Sharon fostered the growth of the settlement movement in his capacity as Minister of Agriculture during the late 70's, and yes, there was a plan for the expansion Israel, known to expand to Greater Israel. But, there were always disagreements about this, and the settlement movement was never a majority of the population, but a minority. Unfortunately, because it's a democracy, and the way political parties work in Israel, unity governments needed to form, and policies needed to be made to create those unity governments.Machinesworking wrote: They don't want to control the Palestinians, they want to take the land. Why else would they allow settlers in the gaza strip? It's great they got rid of them, but I doubt that's the last we'll see of Israeli expansionism, hope I'm wrong.
Now, the point that i'm trying to make is that, this isn't a majority of the population of israel. This is a fringe element of the population that manipulates the rest of society through the political process. Sounds familiar? US, Britain, Etc, etc. This happens in every country. Name one government that actually panders to the consciencious majority? Doesn't happen here. It certainly doesn't happen in Britain. Isn't Blair part of Labor? Haven't they been revolting against his policies for years, yet he maintains?Does it happen in Lebanon? Obviously not. How about Germany? France? What's the deal?
So, to characterize Israeli's as bloodthirsty, money grubbing, land hungry.. is disingenuous, and is just as stereotypically unacceptable for you to be stereotyping them.
I can honestly guarantee, Machinesworking, that you don't know what the middle east is like. You're hearing about it second hand. You don't know the intricacies of how to deal with the different customs.
The fact of the matter is that nothing anyone can do will denote those hostilities. Let me explain quickly by stating that the entire arab nation feels disenfranchised from a millenia of assumed humiliation. First, through the crusades, then the ottomans, then britain, then the US. Each time, those hostilities add to the general feeling of humiliation that the entire arab nation feels. Again, this will never go away. If it wasn't the jews, it would be something else, most likely the christians.Machinesworking wrote: All of that adds up to arab hostilities today.
And one final thing... everyone who keeps stating falsely that this conflict between muslims and jews have been going on for centuries needs to reeducate themselves. This conflict was started by the British redrawing the lines in the middle east, but that's where it ends. Prior to that, jews and muslims were living in PEACE. In fact, during the crusades, they were fighting together, helping each other from getting slaughtered by the christians. So, if you really want to blame somebody, blame the fall of the roman empire and the rise of the catholic church, and the crusades, because that was the original source of these hostilities, not the jews.
