as been mentioned before in this forum , live is groove based , (more than anything else)
what are your techniques to get melodic INSIDE live ?
harmony construction techniques
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SongCarver
- Posts: 432
- Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2001 3:29 pm
melodic techniques
well, it is a bit diffucult, with no pitch control aside from mousing.
I usually set the quantization really short and trigger loops whilst mousing the pitch, typing the pitch, and changing the start point with a knob.
Typing the pitch can be a hassle too, because you have to press enter.
Otherwise, there are some pitch shifting plug-ins around which i use, these are lo-fi.
I have been experimenting with melodyne by celemony and live running at the same time... all though you can't sync them, you can set the loops going and they will stay in time.
For harmony, obviously copy a few loops, and run them at the same time... without a way to keep it diatonic one must sort of stick to block harmonization of the original material, using major sevenths, 9ths and 5ths to get a tonal result.
that can sound quite modern and jazzy, more quartal harmony, eg 20th century music stuff.
Good news... rumors are Live is to have new pitching options in next major release.
Melodyne will be VST plug-in by end of year.
I would love to see a midi-ised pitching, with portamento ... ie , play the original pitch and then play new notes in a legato fashion(connected) and the material will continue to play and be traansposed accordingly.
Of course one would need excellent ears to takes an existing melody and re-pitch it in this way, you would have to thing of the intervals for each note then transpose in your mind. A nicer way would be to have live autodetect the pitches, so that the notes on the keyboard would match the pitches resulting from your playing... ie you could sample a singer and then play a new melody from her voice...all possible and cool.
Pitch detection should be ok, becuase the material could be 'processed' and saved, much like the "soundwave picture"" file is calculated and saved. This reduces pitch detection to only any new samples at any given time.
tell me what you think :-)
I usually set the quantization really short and trigger loops whilst mousing the pitch, typing the pitch, and changing the start point with a knob.
Typing the pitch can be a hassle too, because you have to press enter.
Otherwise, there are some pitch shifting plug-ins around which i use, these are lo-fi.
I have been experimenting with melodyne by celemony and live running at the same time... all though you can't sync them, you can set the loops going and they will stay in time.
For harmony, obviously copy a few loops, and run them at the same time... without a way to keep it diatonic one must sort of stick to block harmonization of the original material, using major sevenths, 9ths and 5ths to get a tonal result.
that can sound quite modern and jazzy, more quartal harmony, eg 20th century music stuff.
Good news... rumors are Live is to have new pitching options in next major release.
Melodyne will be VST plug-in by end of year.
I would love to see a midi-ised pitching, with portamento ... ie , play the original pitch and then play new notes in a legato fashion(connected) and the material will continue to play and be traansposed accordingly.
Of course one would need excellent ears to takes an existing melody and re-pitch it in this way, you would have to thing of the intervals for each note then transpose in your mind. A nicer way would be to have live autodetect the pitches, so that the notes on the keyboard would match the pitches resulting from your playing... ie you could sample a singer and then play a new melody from her voice...all possible and cool.
Pitch detection should be ok, becuase the material could be 'processed' and saved, much like the "soundwave picture"" file is calculated and saved. This reduces pitch detection to only any new samples at any given time.
tell me what you think :-)
thx for the input songCarver .
with quantization you mean the transients settings ? i guess i missed how to set a start point with a knob ... could you explain this further?
most of the plugins i tried seem to me nothing but a sound quality waste , so i don't like to use them too much
well all i can do at the moment , is , like you said , copying loops run them at the same time, then i change pitches and warps and session for results.
and i also don't know melodyne by celemony , sounds interesting . what is it exactly?
with quantization you mean the transients settings ? i guess i missed how to set a start point with a knob ... could you explain this further?
most of the plugins i tried seem to me nothing but a sound quality waste , so i don't like to use them too much
well all i can do at the moment , is , like you said , copying loops run them at the same time, then i change pitches and warps and session for results.
and i also don't know melodyne by celemony , sounds interesting . what is it exactly?
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Guest
Well, you can't do all those things together... I wasn't clear... you cant do all those things at once...
You can change the pitch, then fudge the start-point... but not at the same time.
Celemony are the makers of melodyne.'
Go to celemony.com
Reaaaaally amazing software for altering the pitches, formants and dynamics of a recorded musical line/ melody.
Have a listen to their examples, they show really the absolute musicality of the pitch-shifting and time-strectching.
almost flawless, you can completely change a meldoy of say, a singer, and it will sound like that was the original way it was sung.. I find the interface to be kludgy though... still very oriented towards "record and fix" rather than "record and create"
You can make harmony out of single melodies, and it will sound realistic. It really is another step closer.
I am dreaming of using it live, using it to record a melodic line, alter it and play it back.. much like the call-and-response popular in jazz musics.
Think of being able to melodically play any sound... and not in a 'sampler' sort of corniness.
You could create a beautiful singing melody out of the sound of a beer bottle smashing.
It's possible now, melodyne is real-time, but no-one seems to want to 'wire' things to work that way. The ableton guys are great because they are some of the few people who 'get' where electronic music is going... it is becoming another instrument, in a band, in solo, or in an orchestra. IMHO
Things only really progress when you can perform, improvise.
"most of the plugins i tried seem to me nothing but a sound quality waste , so i don't like to use them too much
"
I personally don't mind if the sound is 'wasted', as long as it is done musically, I would rather have harmony (as a choice) at 16 bit than monophony at 24 bit.. we need some more really musical plug-ins.
cherio
You can change the pitch, then fudge the start-point... but not at the same time.
Celemony are the makers of melodyne.'
Go to celemony.com
Reaaaaally amazing software for altering the pitches, formants and dynamics of a recorded musical line/ melody.
Have a listen to their examples, they show really the absolute musicality of the pitch-shifting and time-strectching.
almost flawless, you can completely change a meldoy of say, a singer, and it will sound like that was the original way it was sung.. I find the interface to be kludgy though... still very oriented towards "record and fix" rather than "record and create"
You can make harmony out of single melodies, and it will sound realistic. It really is another step closer.
I am dreaming of using it live, using it to record a melodic line, alter it and play it back.. much like the call-and-response popular in jazz musics.
Think of being able to melodically play any sound... and not in a 'sampler' sort of corniness.
You could create a beautiful singing melody out of the sound of a beer bottle smashing.
It's possible now, melodyne is real-time, but no-one seems to want to 'wire' things to work that way. The ableton guys are great because they are some of the few people who 'get' where electronic music is going... it is becoming another instrument, in a band, in solo, or in an orchestra. IMHO
Things only really progress when you can perform, improvise.
"most of the plugins i tried seem to me nothing but a sound quality waste , so i don't like to use them too much
"
I personally don't mind if the sound is 'wasted', as long as it is done musically, I would rather have harmony (as a choice) at 16 bit than monophony at 24 bit.. we need some more really musical plug-ins.
cherio
hi . the melodyne thing sounds very interesting , i am just getting the demo , as , at the moment i don' t really get what it is about . all i can guess : it must be hot , like you sound!!
maybe it ist what we need , to treat already recorded stuff on other ways than just stretch , pitch the whole thing , env .etc in real time .. sounds good l. i am looking forward to give it a try
yes , the plug ins , i agree with you : to use them not to get better results , but new , strange and rousing results . maybe i am just tired of downloading so many of them i actually NEVER use . can you recommend some ?? :roll:
and yes .. live is all about communication with other musicians for me aswell .
thx for the input Anonymous.
maybe it ist what we need , to treat already recorded stuff on other ways than just stretch , pitch the whole thing , env .etc in real time .. sounds good l. i am looking forward to give it a try
yes , the plug ins , i agree with you : to use them not to get better results , but new , strange and rousing results . maybe i am just tired of downloading so many of them i actually NEVER use . can you recommend some ?? :roll:
and yes .. live is all about communication with other musicians for me aswell .
thx for the input Anonymous.
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SongCarver
- Posts: 432
- Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2001 3:29 pm
Anon
Anon was me by the way..
One really good Pitch box is Spectral monkeyage
http://www.shiny-fx.com/specMonky.htm
very smooth pitch shifting.. as a vst effect this makes it MIDI-able.
other cool things as well it does.
One really good Pitch box is Spectral monkeyage
http://www.shiny-fx.com/specMonky.htm
very smooth pitch shifting.. as a vst effect this makes it MIDI-able.
other cool things as well it does.