off topic, what do you do when...

slow riot · Post by **slow riot** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:51 pm

(warning, long story ahead...) I've been messing around for a couple of days on Live 6 with what I consider to be a really nice chord sequence.

I got a load of different intsruments & effects all working it quite nicely and today I finally got it all honed together, i.e. I know what things I'm getting to play what, and have the basic structure in my head, with the relevant parts all in clips, and sequencers with sequences all ready to go. But just now I thought, 'hang on, I know this from somewhere', and lo and behold after racking my brains, I found which song I thought it was from, loaded it up in itunes, and I have recreated the exact chord sequence from it, complete with exactly the same key change, at the same point, tension-wise, in the song.

Obviously I'm going to finish it because the chord sequence is the kind that tickles me and my instrumentation is completly different (303s through a big grain delay rack and synthesised hits all round, as opposed to shimmery organic, nearly beatless stuff).

However, do I need to call my song a cover? Can you own a chord sequnce? And did I subliminally recreate the chord sequence I liked from memory becuase I thought it was good the frist time I heard it. Or did I think the chord sequence was good the first time I heard it because it was the kind I was most likely to recreate myself? So many questions...

forge · Post by **forge** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:20 pm

depends what you call a chord sequence

I'f you've done Bohemian Rhapsody complete with the "I see a litttle sillhouette-o of a man" bit then you could fairly say that is a cover

A melody of "I, relative minor, IV, V " on the other hand is a pretty safe bet.

jeskola · Post by **jeskola** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:20 pm

as far as im aware your good to go... its quite a grey area, though id say cause your not physically sampling it your okay... theres a few places you can go to and say " i want this noise" or "this drum pattern" and theyll make it for you exactly so your not sampling it - but making it... thogh im not sure how it works cause surely if i played "like a virgin" over a rbeak beat im ripping of madonna ... erm - actually now im not sure

elektrovert · Post by **elektrovert** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:26 pm

If you take the hook of a song, for example if you copied the opening guitar riff from "I can't get no satisfaction" by the stones then you might be open to being suied, due to the fact that it is blatently their riff, if you change it a little, then it's grand!
as for chord structures, as long as your song doesn't stand out as a cover of the original the you're safe.
You can't copyright a chord structure really.

slow riot · Post by **slow riot** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:44 pm

The song in question is 'Banshee Beat' by Animal Collective, and I've pretty much copied (well, not copied per se) the way the song works. It's a 2 part melody (well, not quite melody), with the first part being a riff of D & A sharps, then after 4 bars moving to C & A, so the main hook is the contrasts of D against C and A against A sharp. Not sure if I've explained that well, but I don't know much in the way technical musical stuff. Is that a chord sequence? I know it's not melody, but in this instance it takes the place of melody as the main hook of the song. Kind of two 2 note melodies at once I'd guess.

The band has a website, it might be worth contacting them about it I guess.

elektrovert · Post by **elektrovert** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:22 pm

I wouldn't worry about it to be honest.
They probably won't have any interest in it anyway.
Are you planning to release it?
if you are I'd wait to see how successful it is.
Think about how many songs are out there that sound exactly like other songs, but have nothing to do with them.

If I could hear samples of both then I'd be able to give you a decent idea of where you stand.
but common sense should help anyway.
Ask yourself if you were in court and someone played you those two songs claiming that your one was a rip off of the "Banshee Beat" would you be convinced??

I think you'll be fine.

slow riot · Post by **slow riot** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:31 pm

elektrovert wrote:I wouldn't worry about it to be honest.
They probably won't have any interest in it anyway.
Are you planning to release it?
if you are I'd wait to see how successful it is.
Think about how many songs are out there that sound exactly like other songs, but have nothing to do with them.

If I could hear samples of both then I'd be able to give you a decent idea of where you stand.
but common sense should help anyway.
Ask yourself if you were in court and someone played you those two songs claiming that your one was a rip off of the "Banshee Beat" would you be convinced??

I think you'll be fine.

As with my other tracks I'm just gonna give it out for free, I think this makes a diffrence legality wise?

I'll sort out samples once I've finished my track, but from what's been said I think I should be ok. thanks for the info guys, mark.

forge · Post by **forge** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:32 pm

yeah, the piracy police wont come smahing your door down

5dots · Post by **5dots** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:32 pm

One time I accidentally rewrote the synth lead to New Order's "Bizarre Love Triangle". I played it over and over for maybe an hour going "where the hell have I heard this before?" When I realized, I knew it was too recognizable of a lick to try to make it my own, so I tried to turn the track into a cover - never finished it, though.

I guess my advice is: if someone else hears your tune, and without prompting tells you it sounds like another song, then it's too close to really call it your own.

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:36 pm

a long lost jukebox owned by John Lennon has revealed that, when it came to musical inspiration, even the Beatles got by with a little help from their friends.

John Sebastian of The Lovin' Spoonful, whose 'Daydream' is on the jukebox, says: 'A few years ago a friend of mine sent me this recorded tape of the Beatles rehearsing, and there is this fragment where John is working his way through "Daydream". There were a couple of problems, and if you listen carefully you can hear him say, 'Damn tunesmiths!'

'Sir Paul graciously said that "Daydream" played heavily in the creation of "Good Day Sunshine"

http://arts.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0 ... 13,00.html

In radio interviews, some of which have not been heard for decades, Lennon admits: 'Especially in the early years I would often write a melody, a lyric in my head to some other song because I can't write music. So I would carry it around as somebody else's song and then change it when I got down to putting it on paper or tape - consciously change because I knew somebody's going to sue me or everybody's going to say "what a rip-off".'

elektrovert · Post by **elektrovert** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:46 pm

Exactly!

Look at the entire Oasis catalogue!

Sales Dude McBoob · Post by **Sales Dude McBoob** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:59 pm

I don't think a band like Animal Collective is going to come after you. Only if your song is a hit and actually makes money. I think some of the guys in that band have families, they might be tempted if your track made a million bux.

I always think of the case between The Shondells (i think that's the name) and George Harrison. They sued George for the first song on All Things Must Pass, you know, the hari-chishna song. It has the same melody and progression as He's So Fine. George lost the suit and a bunch of Beatle generated money.

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:04 pm

There are thousands of songs with the same chord progressions. That's one of the great things about playing a real instrument like guitar, once you train your ear to hear them you can pick out all kinds of songs with just a few chords.

Good artists copy, great artists steal.

Keith Richards has been quoted as saying that he stole all of his licks from Chuck Berry.

Angstrom - Awesome quotes.