MIDI maps for Plug-ins

[buzzcock]

It would be great if, after you assign the virtual controls of a soft synth or effect to knobs/sliders on your favorite contoller, you could save that info like a preset in the plug-in. That way, you could just load it into the plug-in the next time you use it, rather than having to MIDI Learn the conections all over again.



EDIT: Thinking about it a bit more, it's like an .asd file for Plug-ins. Instead of storing Clip/Warp data, it stores the plug's MIDI Map.

[Nod]

It would be great if, after you assign the virtual controls of a soft synth or effect to knobs/sliders on your favorite contoller, you could save that info like a preset in the plug-in. That way, you could just load it into the plug-in the next time you use it, rather than having to MIDI Learn the conections all over again.

*bump*

Absolutely essential since v5, as far as I can tell, no longer passes most non standard (ie: everything but volume) MIDI cc's directly to the output. I had my controller set up for a huge bunch of synths/plugs using their own mappings and I now have to remap all those functions everytime I want to use that synth or plug? Worked absolutely fine in v4.x guys - what happened?

[buzzcock]

Hey Nod,

Just out of curiosity, how did this work before in v4? What contoller were/are you using and how did you have it set?

[Nod]

Hey Nod,

Just out of curiosity, how did this work before in v4? What contoller were/are you using and how did you have it set?

I use a Yamaha AN1x - it's got 8 knobs and an x, z ribbon controller and I'd set it up with a wad of specific presets for various softsynths - mainly to control functions such as filter cutoff, filter resonance, ADSR and efx balance. Pretty standard stuff seeing as a lot of softsynths have a control map for this very same purpose.

In v4.x this works like a charm - I load a synth and I'm ready to go. Now in v5.x I pull in a synth an have to set the controllers for each synth on a per song basis - which is crap. I'd posted this in the Bugs forum but either folks aren't having the same problem as I am, I've somehow set this up wrong or people actually expect to be loading up instruments and setting them up this way.

As far as I can tell this isn't something to do with the Live interface - the MIDI mappings for let's say a control surface as a mixer can be saved as a template for every song - but something to do with how Live passes MIDI cc to third party instruments. Hence the reason why I agreed with your suggestion that 'template' MIDI assignments should be available on a per instrument basis OR we go back to Live 4 where it actually worked 'out of the box'.

[buzzcock]

So it actually worked before and now it doesn't? I guess we're the only ones who find this annoying.

BTW, I tried something else that didn't work:

Loaded a few soft synths into a new Set, assigned controller knobs to synth parameters via Live MIDI Map. Saved set as my new default template (under Live prefrences/defaults). Deleted softsynths, put new versions of the same softsynths on tracks, twiddled knobs-- nothing.

So the Template file is no different than any other Live Set.als in this respect. Bummer.

[Nod]

So it actually worked before and now it doesn't? I guess we're the only ones who find this annoying.

Yeah man - it's really annoying - given that the emphasis of the program is on realtime control it doesn't make a lot of sense to have to spend more time setting that up than you have to. In fact none at all, in the case of plugs that already have their own internal mappings and you've a controller that can make use of them, would be even better.

BTW, I tried something else that didn't work:
Loaded a few soft synths into a new Set, assigned controller knobs to synth parameters via Live MIDI Map. Saved set as my new default template (under Live prefrences/defaults). Deleted softsynths, put new versions of the same softsynths on tracks, twiddled knobs-- nothing. So the Template file is no different than any other Live Set.als in this respect. Bummer.

What happens when you reload the entire set with the mappings - do they work then? In other words are the mappings specifically saved for that specific instance of the instrument in the template?

If so surely it can't be that much of leap for the Abe's to implement something, let's say under the Options menu, to KEEP the cc mapping for that .dll until the MIDI Map button is pressed again and the cc reassigned?

[CopyRightJustice]

BUMP

The assignments should be saved when you export a clip track or song, to enable mixing of sets a workaround to avoid double assignments would be to export two versions both with different midi channels and switch between them using the controller.weather you use control set midi ch A or B depends on the previous sets assingment.For a live performance tool Ableton is seriosly lacking in the control areas.

[buzzcock]

What happens when you reload the entire set with the mappings - do they work then? In other words are the mappings specifically saved for that specific instance of the instrument in the template?

If so surely it can't be that much of leap for the Abe's to implement something, let's say under the Options menu, to KEEP the cc mapping for that .dll until the MIDI Map button is pressed again and the cc reassigned?

This is basically what I have found to be that case. When you assign MIDI controls to parameters, it's only true for THAT PARTICULAR INSTANCE of, say, ImpOscar. NOT for EVERY ImpOscar I may want to use in that or any other Set.

I guess the reasoning is that it avoids conflicts with other MIDI Map settings that may be in place. But it would save a lot of time to be able to set a DEFAULT and then simply change it if you have conflicts.

I agree with CopyRight; Saving MIDI maps in Clip Tracks would be a nice solution short of an .asd type file for Devices/Plug-ins.

[astar]

I add my vote to this one, it's HUGE. I have posted threads in the past about this and am surprised by the lack of response. See this thread

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24135

Mapping MIDI controls is a daily chore for me in LIVE that wastes my time and the workaround of using Live set templates just doesn't cut it. I want to be able to drag a VST into a track and have it instantly ready to go with my midi controller! They could easily implement this by allowing us to save midi mappings in a text file or something... or, like buzzcock said, as a VST preset.

When loading these saved mappings, to avoid conflicts you could just have LIVE give a popup dialog asking whether you want to override any mappings that conflict with the ones in the current set.

This would be a HUGE timesaver for me. For now I have resorted to using MIDI Learn directly on my VSTs that have the feature since most of these can actually save the mappings (unlike live where it's a brutal chore of trying to find which parameter is what, then mapping it over and over again each time you drag the VST into a track).

And YES, with the new live clip format this would be brilliant if we could save the midi mappings in the .alc file.

PLEASE IMPLEMENT THIS

[Nod]

PLEASE IMPLEMENT THIS

Just giving this a bump guys as it's an essential. MIDI CC, using the plugs own mappings, worked perfectly in v4 so I really do hope this will be fixed in v5 - it is NOT a feature request - it is a bug. Cheers for all the suggestions and I'm sure the Abe's will implement a classy and elegant solution.

You wouldn't restring a guitar every time you picked it up would you?

[Jinsai]

BUMP:

I just spent an hour trying to figure out how to get Live to do this... It's definitely a necessary feature.

PLEASE include this in a future update!!! It's been driving me nuts to have to remap an instrument everytime I load it up.
This would also be good to apply for clips... if you could load up some preset up MIDI mapped controls to apply to a clip... and just load that up in a section of the clip view... Then you could just overwrite the same map set when you want to control/edit another clip.

Loading preset mapping controls to a plugin would be cool if it worked the same way... just a seperate loading button for MIDI control over the plugin...

Also... would be really cool if you could assign the same MIDI CC to different controls... so each MIDI CC could operate like a mod wheel that controls multiple parameters (or so you could switch between control by turning monitoring off on synths that you don't want to control at the moment)...

Unless I'm an idiot and you can already do this...

[hambone1]

I know it's not a software fix, and it sounds like the Abes SHOULD fix this one, but consider picking up a Behringer BCR2000. They're dirt-cheap, and you can save tons of controller info on lots of knobs and presets.

You can have a preset for each softsynth/plugin with its own dedicated CC numbers. There is SO much you can do with this thing. It even has a built-in 1-in 2-out MIDI interface that would cost you over half of the unit alone (had I known this beforehand, I wouldn't have bought a MIDI interface... grrrr!)

[hoffman2k]

There's a problem with implementing this though.

Lets say you have an entire synth mapped out on midichannel 1. And you save that as a clip.

Now you're working in another set. You decide to load up that clip and expect all the settings to be there like you saved them.
ok.........
Now what about "double messages"?
Like a knob on your controller that has been assigned to control filter cutoff on your synth, that is also assigned to filter delay in some track.

Do you want a pop-up for every double parameter?
Do you want the previous assingments to be erased?
Do you want them to work both?
Do you want the clip with mapped parameters to receive messages from another mdichannel?

These are a couple of questions i can raise. I bet that Ableton probably has more questions.....

Anyway, it's not a simple thing to implement (i think).
But we should discuss it though.

How do you suggest to implement this, without breaking current functionality? And what do you do with double mapped knobs?

[Jinsai]

Double mapped knobs. That'd be fine by me, as long as it gave me the option to either reset or double-knob it (for each shared assignment).

That would be fantastic...
Also, it wouldn't be too hard to keep your MIDI mapping of your synths/etc on a MIDI channel that you reserve for that purpose... such as Channel 16 for the Vanguard...
Of course you'll run out if you are working with a ton of synths, but it's not like you can't organize it.

Still... I've always wanted to be able to double map knobs anyway.

[tripiale]

I THINK ABLETON GUYS MUST DO IT... IS THE FUTURE:::

PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE