in case you were curious: RME vs. MOTU A/D comparison
in case you were curious: RME vs. MOTU A/D comparison
the test:
I recently came into psoession of the MOTU with the intent of using it as a mixer/router in my nascent live rig (VirusC, MPC1k, Live, Reason). I already owned the RME converters, but those serve a difference role, and don't offer some of the features of the 828...
so, the shootout: RME ADI-8 DS vs. MOTU 828 mkII
outputs from the synth and sampler were multed (at a patchbay) and routed to the above converters. the signals were then piped digitally** to my Apogee PSX-100 for D/A conversion & monitoring. I just switched back & forth between the 2 digital inputs (same audio into the RMEs and 828mkII, respectively) to the PSX with the press of a button and monitored on my Mackie HR824s.
The difference is not as dramatic as I expected, in fact, it's pretty subtle. I distinctly prefer the RMEs, the bass is slightly rounder and fully feeling, and the top end is smoother and less digital/plastic. Transients felt a wee bit smoother, too.
But I must confess, I'm far more impressed by the 828mk2 than I expected to be. It's A/D conversion is totally usable, and based on my first day impressions, the price to performance ratio is stellar. The CueMix software is useful for simple routing & monitoring, which is basically what I wanted...
HOWEVER...
When I did the corresponding D/A comparison, the RMEs *smoked* the 828mkII. Ate it for lunch. Night and Day. The RME D/As compare very favorably to the Apogee PSX to my ears. The Apogees have a bit more depth and dimension, and are clearly brighter/cleaner. The RMEs add some coloration, but it's not undesirable to my tastes. Both sound good...
otoh, the 828mkII D/As sound shallow and thin by comparison. The bass is discernibly muddier and less defined, and the "dimension" of the sound is greatly lessened. The transient response in the D/A stage seems greatly inferior, and plasticky artifacts are pretty plainly apparent.
I don't think the 828mkII D/As are unusable, but I do think that they are decidedly inferior to the RME ADI-8 DS D/As. (The A/D conversion, as noted above, is more closely matched.) For live performance, I'm pretty certain the 828mkII D/A will be serviceable --it won't affect the sound as much as a bad stylus would a record, or the amp or room will effect the sound, but I can state outright that I wouldn't settle for them for the purposes of studio mixing...
otoh-- you get what you pay for. $700 vs. $1400 (vs. $1700 for 2ch Apogees).
Also worth noting: The spces for the RME ADI-8 DS are different than those for the Multi/Digiface, I believe, so this may have limited applicability wrt the 828mkII vs. Multiface debate. Consult your dealer for details...
I recently came into psoession of the MOTU with the intent of using it as a mixer/router in my nascent live rig (VirusC, MPC1k, Live, Reason). I already owned the RME converters, but those serve a difference role, and don't offer some of the features of the 828...
so, the shootout: RME ADI-8 DS vs. MOTU 828 mkII
outputs from the synth and sampler were multed (at a patchbay) and routed to the above converters. the signals were then piped digitally** to my Apogee PSX-100 for D/A conversion & monitoring. I just switched back & forth between the 2 digital inputs (same audio into the RMEs and 828mkII, respectively) to the PSX with the press of a button and monitored on my Mackie HR824s.
The difference is not as dramatic as I expected, in fact, it's pretty subtle. I distinctly prefer the RMEs, the bass is slightly rounder and fully feeling, and the top end is smoother and less digital/plastic. Transients felt a wee bit smoother, too.
But I must confess, I'm far more impressed by the 828mk2 than I expected to be. It's A/D conversion is totally usable, and based on my first day impressions, the price to performance ratio is stellar. The CueMix software is useful for simple routing & monitoring, which is basically what I wanted...
HOWEVER...
When I did the corresponding D/A comparison, the RMEs *smoked* the 828mkII. Ate it for lunch. Night and Day. The RME D/As compare very favorably to the Apogee PSX to my ears. The Apogees have a bit more depth and dimension, and are clearly brighter/cleaner. The RMEs add some coloration, but it's not undesirable to my tastes. Both sound good...
otoh, the 828mkII D/As sound shallow and thin by comparison. The bass is discernibly muddier and less defined, and the "dimension" of the sound is greatly lessened. The transient response in the D/A stage seems greatly inferior, and plasticky artifacts are pretty plainly apparent.
I don't think the 828mkII D/As are unusable, but I do think that they are decidedly inferior to the RME ADI-8 DS D/As. (The A/D conversion, as noted above, is more closely matched.) For live performance, I'm pretty certain the 828mkII D/A will be serviceable --it won't affect the sound as much as a bad stylus would a record, or the amp or room will effect the sound, but I can state outright that I wouldn't settle for them for the purposes of studio mixing...
otoh-- you get what you pay for. $700 vs. $1400 (vs. $1700 for 2ch Apogees).
Also worth noting: The spces for the RME ADI-8 DS are different than those for the Multi/Digiface, I believe, so this may have limited applicability wrt the 828mkII vs. Multiface debate. Consult your dealer for details...
I didn't think I was curious about this topic but I turned to be ! Thanks for your post.
Aboard from V. 1
MBP M1 Pro 2021 - 16 Go RAM - Monterey 12.6.3
MBP 2.5 Ghz I7 16 Go SSD OSX 10.14
iPad + Mira+ TouchOsc
RME FF UC Live 11.3.21 M4L Max 8
Band : https://elastocat.org/
Madlab sound unit / objects, guitar, electronics / end_of_transmission
MBP M1 Pro 2021 - 16 Go RAM - Monterey 12.6.3
MBP 2.5 Ghz I7 16 Go SSD OSX 10.14
iPad + Mira+ TouchOsc
RME FF UC Live 11.3.21 M4L Max 8
Band : https://elastocat.org/
Madlab sound unit / objects, guitar, electronics / end_of_transmission
RME vs new eMu
have you heard the new eMu cards? They ahve a good set of features...wondering how they stack up to RME?
ha ha ha. Are you serious? Emu vs. RME? Just based on the two companies' other products and general market stance and price points, I gotta think the RME's sound quality will decisively beat anything made by Emu. THis is purely conjecture, but the RME costs more for a good reason (and is still a great deal).
Ryan
Ryan
For others looking to make a choice....
Don't forget that as usual... a lot of the artifacts/distortions on either device are both subject to the persons opinion.
Personally I prefer the MOTU 828mkII over the RME and I enjoy the sound better.
I think a much more important minus for the MOTU however is that if you have a poorly implemented firewire connection on your computer you will get a dirty signal.
From personal experience I have also found that it is *much* easier (and computer wise cheaper) to get that low latency with the RME than it is with the MOTU. My friend has been able to hit 1-3 ms latency quite easilly with the RME, while I just barely trimmed my system config down to 3ms after a lot of system tweaking. I still hope to hit 1ms, but it may require a hardware upgrade or dropping even more services/drivers.
Personally I prefer the MOTU 828mkII over the RME and I enjoy the sound better.
I think a much more important minus for the MOTU however is that if you have a poorly implemented firewire connection on your computer you will get a dirty signal.
From personal experience I have also found that it is *much* easier (and computer wise cheaper) to get that low latency with the RME than it is with the MOTU. My friend has been able to hit 1-3 ms latency quite easilly with the RME, while I just barely trimmed my system config down to 3ms after a lot of system tweaking. I still hope to hit 1ms, but it may require a hardware upgrade or dropping even more services/drivers.
Re: For others looking to make a choice....
I had a 828 before i got my RME multiface, and i'm lot much happier now!!I personnaly prefer the RME's sound compared to a 828, but i haven't tried the MKII. I think the new card from Motu is based on the same system (firewire) which means you won't get a latency as low as the RME's on a Motu, the architecture of the RME card is a lot different, on a laptop, its DSP is directly connected to the motherboard...gaspode wrote:Don't forget that as usual... a lot of the artifacts/distortions on either device are both subject to the persons opinion.
Personally I prefer the MOTU 828mkII over the RME and I enjoy the sound better.
I think a much more important minus for the MOTU however is that if you have a poorly implemented firewire connection on your computer you will get a dirty signal.
From personal experience I have also found that it is *much* easier (and computer wise cheaper) to get that low latency with the RME than it is with the MOTU. My friend has been able to hit 1-3 ms latency quite easilly with the RME, while I just barely trimmed my system config down to 3ms after a lot of system tweaking. I still hope to hit 1ms, but it may require a hardware upgrade or dropping even more services/drivers.
pcmcia=faster and lower latency than firewire, plus it keeps your firewire port open for a hard drive. RME's totalmix software's routing possibilities are astounding. Low latency is easy with RME, I can record 16 tracks of 24/48 audio at once into Live at the lowest latency on P4 2.4 gig RAM toshiba laptop (with multiface and external fw 7,200 RPM hds). I use Live with 6 tracks of FL rewired and 10 tracks in Live and tons of effects for live performances with 2 ms latency (second lowest on RME).
Ryan
Ryan
sweet...
I've managed to get my latency down to 3ms on the motu 828mkII... I'll have to try for 2ms tonight, but I think that'll require an act of god.
I think I remember hearing about people hitting 0.5ms latency on the RME before... what is that... a 64 buffer? that'd be amazing!
I think I remember hearing about people hitting 0.5ms latency on the RME before... what is that... a 64 buffer? that'd be amazing!
ryan (or whoever else is familiar w/ rme products) ,
I've been looking at the rme pc card for my tibook. Is there an interface that comes with it, or is that something that you have to get separately? I currently use the 828 mkII, which as you probably know, has xlr and quarter inch inputs. If I got the pcmcia card, does it come with breakout cables that give you these options?
thanks.
I've been looking at the rme pc card for my tibook. Is there an interface that comes with it, or is that something that you have to get separately? I currently use the 828 mkII, which as you probably know, has xlr and quarter inch inputs. If I got the pcmcia card, does it come with breakout cables that give you these options?
thanks.
peace,
rahlo
------------------------------------------------------
http://www.rahlo.com
MacBook Pro, Live 8, Reason 4, Akai MPD 32, Akai MPK 49, Akai APC 40, Metric Halo ULN-2 expanded, Apogee Duet.
rahlo
------------------------------------------------------
http://www.rahlo.com
MacBook Pro, Live 8, Reason 4, Akai MPD 32, Akai MPK 49, Akai APC 40, Metric Halo ULN-2 expanded, Apogee Duet.
sadly no, the RME cardbus is only a means of getting the sound into a computer from an RME Multiface or Digiface. The cardbus only works with RME products, and the connection to the cardbus is unique to RME (I think--its not firewire, thats for sure). I think you may leave well enough alone since you already have a good piece of gear in the 828. For the RME money, you could get a pc that can run Live way faster (not trying to flame), or be well on the way to your next mac...just my 2 cents.
Ryan
Ryan
Thanks for the insight dude. I'm running Live for my live shows on a tibook 800, and am trying to squeeze mo' out of it, and was thinking that if I went to the faster cardbus option, that it'd help some.Anonymous wrote:sadly no, the RME cardbus is only a means of getting the sound into a computer from an RME Multiface or Digiface. The cardbus only works with RME products, and the connection to the cardbus is unique to RME (I think--its not firewire, thats for sure). I think you may leave well enough alone since you already have a good piece of gear in the 828. For the RME money, you could get a pc that can run Live way faster (not trying to flame), or be well on the way to your next mac...just my 2 cents.
Ryan
Thanks for the balanced response to a mac head!
peace,
rahlo
------------------------------------------------------
http://www.rahlo.com
MacBook Pro, Live 8, Reason 4, Akai MPD 32, Akai MPK 49, Akai APC 40, Metric Halo ULN-2 expanded, Apogee Duet.
rahlo
------------------------------------------------------
http://www.rahlo.com
MacBook Pro, Live 8, Reason 4, Akai MPD 32, Akai MPK 49, Akai APC 40, Metric Halo ULN-2 expanded, Apogee Duet.