6.0.3 doesn't change a thing

l-rs · Post by **l-rs** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 1:30 pm

Damn, I was all excited about this new release, but Ableton 6.0.3 exibits the exact same problems like al versions before it. Gotta rant a bit...

When dualcore support is ON, Ableton crashes when loading a track. It loads all instruments, the cursor (Windows) changes to an hourglass and it immediately afterwards crashes.

I only get a Windows crashbox, nothing from Ableton itself. I can't find any crashlogs and also the regular logs don't show up anything noteworthy.

When I turn dualcore support off, I can load tracks and then have to turn it on again to benefit from two processors. However, every now and then it will crash when adding a EVEN NATIVE effect.

The whole reason I wanted Live 6 *was* dualcore support. I have sent in crashlogs and bugreports from 6.0.1 and subsequent beta versions but I don't hear sh*t from support.

To be fair, i did get one mail in october, to say that since it was so early after the version 6 release that they had a lot of support events to deal with.

I was cool with that, but it's been months and we're at 6.0.3 and STILL it feels like something that shouldn't be out here as a finished product.

There's a fine line between disappointment and anger... I can't really tell which I'm feeling at the moment.

(For those that are still reading: I'm on a Windows machine, it's used ONLY as a musical platform, my main computer is an iMac downstairs. I have a dualcore P940 (3,4 GHz) and 3 gigabytes of RAM, I use an ESI ESP1010 as my soundcard all the latest drivers etc. etc.)

Well, I'm off to reboot since every Ableton crash messes up my ASIO-drivers. I can work around the crashes somewhat by not enabling dualcore, but djeez... it's such a waste of time...

tomz.biz · Post by **tomz.biz** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 1:55 pm

dualcore works like a charm on my machine. is this not a hardware/windows issue?

ps, a couple of annoying issues were fixed for me. 6.03 changed a LOT as far as i am concerned.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 2:19 pm

Well it's working fine for thousands of other people, so it must be something with the configuration of your machine. Is this a clean install? Done all the obvious XP tweaks?

http://tarekith.com/assets/XPTweaks.htm

tomz.biz · Post by **tomz.biz** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 2:25 pm

one of the reasons i like my mac!

l-rs · Post by **l-rs** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:48 pm

Yes, I built this machine from scratch (and yes, I know what I'm doing

) and installed a new Windows version on it, installed only what I need and all the latest drivers. It's not used for surfing or anything other than making music. It has antivirus, even though it's not really needed for the situation...

The drivers are all new, it's up to date with all patches and more importantly, no other programs or Windows itself exhibit any problems that would indicate there's a hardware problem. I hate the XP winegum look, so I did most of what Tarekith suggested, but I'll have a look what I might have missed.

But because it's so specifically tied in with Ableton (turning on dualcore when I'm about to load a track will ALWAYS crash Ableton) I can't conclude anything else than that it's Ableton-related.

The fact that support is virtually non-existent when it comes to responding to sent in crashlogs/beta-crashlogs is very disappointing. I heard good stories about a three-day turn around but I haven't heard anything related to my logs in months (yes, MONTHS!)

I can work around many crashes by manually disabling dualcore and only turning it on when I'm about to work on cpu intensive stuff. But every now I forget and then it is left turned on, I start Live, it crashes, ASIO gets borked over in the process and it's time to reboot. No fun.

That's why I hoped 6.0.3 might finally fix it (the people at Ableton might actually have done something with my logs, I'm forgiven to think) but no...

Still, I love Ableton, have some kind of work around and am sure in the end it will be fixed. But that "mean time" is a pretty mean time - if you catch my drift.

PS
"one of the reasons i like my mac" is such a dumb remark... Please let's not get into that PC vs Mac debate. Suffice to say I have had huge troubles in the past with a POS Power Mac (after 8 months of hell I got refunded by Apple) so going that route is not automatically/magically free of troubles.

Since my main computer is a Mac I'm entitled to say that Mac zealots creep me out.

tylenol · Post by **tylenol** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:07 pm

l-rs wrote: The fact that support is virtually non-existent when it comes to responding to sent in crashlogs/beta-crashlogs is very disappointing. I heard good stories about a three-day turn around but I haven't heard anything related to my logs in months (yes, MONTHS!)

It might be worth mailing them again, perhaps your original email got lost in the flood. I've had a pretty good experience mailing support a few weeks ago; well, the bug doesn't seem to be fixed yet, but I got an immediate response (not automated) acknowledging the email and a follow up telling me they could reproduce it and the developers were taking a look.

Also, in general, it seems that anything that could possibly help them reproduce it should be in your email, and it sounds like your bug will be hard for them to reproduce (since dual-core support works so well in general). So tell them every detail of your hardware, and it might even help to do some experimentation (removing as much hardware as you can, and if it doesn't crash then gradually adding pieces until it crashes) to ensure that it's not some particular piece of hardware causing the problem.

"one of the reasons i like my mac" is such a dumb remark

Yeah, I like my mac too but if you read this forum some of the people who have posted about having real stability problems with l6 have macs.

tomz.biz · Post by **tomz.biz** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:42 am

Suffice it to say i use both platorms. i don't make futile remarks about one platform's superiority over another. Only tried, tested, and conclusive evidence will feed any opinions i promote. Most 'fans' will take objective opinions as insults. I understand this, as i was once a uni-platform user.

Have fun with your dual core bugs

Maybe vista will make things better

beubbo · Post by **beubbo** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:34 am

tomz.biz wrote:one of the reasons i like my mac!

Hi,

do you mean that LIVE 6 runs better/smoother on Macs ? (as you seem to use both platforms...)

Thanks

tomz.biz · Post by **tomz.biz** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 10:32 am

In my experience Live runs just as well on BOTH platforms.

What i meant is that a mac is less likely to have some weird hardware conflict or so, because you didn't buy some spare parts from some chinese computer monger!

A Mac will usually work straight out of the box, unless it has a defect or faulty ram or so. I remember my 3rd pc about 10 yers ago which was one of the worst computing experiences i've ever had. The soundcard just wouldn't work with the motherboard. IRQ conflicts galore. The issue was only resolved after much technical support from the manufacturer. In other words, it was not plug and play.

Personally, i just need a working system. Having to install anti virus, firewalls, tweak your system etc is something i'm quite happy to do without!

I don't think a Mac is better than a good pc, but i do feel osx has an advantage over windows, especially for users like me who just want something that works. What has always made me laugh about windows is the confirmation bubble that my usb device is well and truly recognised when i plug it in. As if windows is proud to have actually made it work for me. C'mon! WTF! LOL Of course it should recognise a usb mouse, and i really don't care to have my computer boast about making it work: that's what it's supposed to do. There's probably a way of turning this off, but i haven't investigated the matter(i shouldn't really have to in the first place).

There are a couple of things i like better in windows, but overall, i feel more comfy on osx. At the end of the day, the music i make would probably be identical, whatever system i use.

Happy Holidays !

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 3:46 pm

got something against the chinese? think your precious mac wasn't made there?

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:27 am

There are issues with Live 6 on both platforms but it is running great on my Dell Inspiron 9100 laptop under win xp sp2. Different platforms seem prone to different problems, I see problems with windows and I see problems with Mac OSX (notably problems with Rewire) - the mac problems are not issues on my computer and when mac has been on intel only chips for a while longer there should be even fewer bugs than catering for Universal Binary across g5 and macintel platforms.

If you are solely running a computer for music production I would go with a mac, next time around but if you need to run other programs, are into gaming and stuff then windows gives you the wider variety and choice. Also Macs usually cost more for a decent build (talking about the mac pro towers etc) than a PC equivalent.

The new 6.03 is running fine on my win xp machine, it is running about 6% less CPU than 6.01 on average and so far no issues...touch wood !

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:46 am

l-rs wrote:Since my main computer is a Mac I'm entitled to say that Mac zealots creep me out.

That made me laugh, thanks man!

The problem is Ableton IMO, in the sense that a certain configuration of parts, that you chose hopefully for their performance and reliability over price, ( I hope that's the case anyway ), is bogging out with only their software. If you in fact saved money to build your computer, then let me say this.... A good friend works for Apple in hardware, and while that might make you think what he says is biased, realize he said this in private, with no real reson to lie, or defend his job. Basically he told me the real reason that Apple doesn't want to compete with Microsoft on the open hardware market is that the OS while stable, is not necessarily more bullet proof than XP, and in fact Microsoft could afford the best coders, in many ways outbid etc. Apple... the real reason is control of the hardware gives them the ability to keep the OS fairly bullet proof. It's not even quality of hardware, it's compatibility. Apple used to 'certify' RAM, and people thought that was a gimick, but it's more about support calls, and keeping the cost of support down...

Anyway point is, it's possible Ableton haven't beta tested your particular configuration of hardware, and there's a conflict, Live VS hardware, that the OS is incapable of resolving.

James Cater · Post by **James Cater** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:47 pm

Are you using an Intel or AMD dual core processor ?

There are CPU updates for AMD dual cores that are 2 years newer than the one supplied via Microsoft update.

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/Tec ... 06,00.html

tomz.biz · Post by **tomz.biz** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:41 pm

longjohns wrote:got something against the chinese? think your precious mac wasn't made there?

groan...

very constructive. there's street in paris called Rue Mont Gallet. 100%chinese, 100% pc stuff. was just an example. maybe i should have used ebay or some other example. fact of the matter is, most stuff is made in china nowadays.

and yes i can read the 'made in china' label on my mac. that was not the point of this discussion.

someone mentioned hardware/os integration. that's exactly my point! a mac is sold with the os which works best for the parts. you'll never buy a mac only to discover that some obscure graphics card chipset is not supported by osx cos nobody wrote the drivers or something crazy like that.

i never understood why people get so touchy about this pc mac issue. personally i couldn't care less, i use what i prefer, and support the platform i feel could have an advantage for other music makers, who like me, are ONLY music makers. whatever you use, good luck with your music, and please refrain from insinuating racist remarks.

ps. what makes you so sure i am not chinese?

tomz.biz · Post by **tomz.biz** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:18 pm

l-rs wrote: PS
"one of the reasons i like my mac" is such a dumb remark... Please let's not get into that PC vs Mac debate. Suffice to say I have had huge troubles in the past with a POS Power Mac (after 8 months of hell I got refunded by Apple) so going that route is not automatically/magically free of troubles.

Since my main computer is a Mac I'm entitled to say that Mac zealots creep me out.

I'm entitled to like my mac. Zealot? hardly, i used pc's for years, and continue to do so!

Such negative reactions... learn some moderation and the meaning of the vocabulary you employ, and try not to take my opinions as insults. Zealots like pointing fingers...

Personally i couldn't care less what my computer is as long as i can use it to make music. I will step out of this discussion at present, because it has degraded from friendly advice into a mac/pc war. Not what i intended, but i see there are people who feel strongly about this issue. Enjoy your war, i'll get back to my music!