Juddering when i play a clip please help

[Josh Von]

More evidence that a whole cluster of these kinds of problems are directly related to number of clips on the grid in arrange (if using arrange) ..

.. and that the problem is Live starts handing the data more poorly the more clip (cuts) are on the grid:

Why does consolidating many clips into one improve performance on restart of the project?

Because you are telling live to summarize the data in all the individual clips into one. All that less data it needs to track ...so ...

Less stuttering, juddering, random lockups, dropouts, failure to load projects, failure to close etc.

There is a direct relationship and on my machine and others I have seen it reproduces every single time

.

[deklin]

i have narrowed my problem down to something to do with USB and/or Trigger Finger. everything works fine and the CPU sits at a healthy 7% when I'm using the mouse. As soon as I touch a pad on the trigger finger it just jumps to 165% (?) and the audio cuts out for a few seconds and then it returns to 7% again. i have been using the TF for about 5 months with nothing like this happening until now.
Also, Live wont pick it up at all in one of my USB ports, even though the port is working fine.

I have a MacBook 2ghz 1gb ram so can anyone help me out? I only have 2 USB ports and the only thing going through them is a mouse and the TF...

what is going on..?!

[mocker]

I don't know bout PCs but on a MAc it is very important to leave around 10 gigas free space on your system HD, cos' the way Mac OSX handles memory usage relies a lot on virtual memory. So checking out Activity Monitor again today while using Live showed a much larger free memory provision. I used to have only 2 GB free, seems it's not enough.

So my setup is : MacBook Core 2 Duo with 2GB RAM, HD 80 (with 9 GB free space), MOTU Traveler, external 7200rpm Firewire 100 GB HD.

[Josh Von]

More evidence that a whole cluster of these kinds of problems are directly related to number of clips on the grid in arrange (if using arrange) ..

.. and that the problem is Live starts handing the data more poorly the more clip (cuts) are on the grid:

Why does consolidating many clips into one improve performance on restart of the project?

Because you are telling live to summarize the data in all the individual clips into one. All that less data it needs to track ...so ...

Less stuttering, juddering, random lockups, dropouts, failure to load projects, failure to close etc.

There is a direct relationship and on my machine and others I have seen it reproduces every single time

.

More evidence (memory allocation of clip and other data is most basic cause of these problems)

Right now I am running a production set ..

- ~50 tracks, not all playing simultaneously, ALL audio - no VSTs

- only live effects, Camelphat mix effect (low cpu, regged, totally safe and benign in every way), Izotope Ozone3 on master

- relative minimum of clip edits at this point: most of the tracks were bounced down using Render All Tracks and brought back in as single long 8 minute clips

However:

There are some edits on the grid, and in particular there is a straight edit all the way down all clips at 'major intersections' between arrangment sections ..

ie. where there are significant new parts coming in, I split the clips .. before VS 1, BRG, CHorus .. BRK .. etc..

It is right at these points where Live chokes. The audio plays smoothly and right as it hits the split point on the clips ... KKK-PPPP-THHHHHZZZZZTT

.. everything judders to a halt, the green meter skyrockets up to %15667 or some ridiculous number, swings back and forth and this goes on for a couple of really, really slow bars.

Its like a 10, 15 second wait. Then the audio goes smoothly again.

This sound? is so distinctive to Live, and we are so accustomed to hearing it over the course of three years, Im trying to figure out a way to sample it and get into my tracks.

(Im serious. People will recognize it and laugh. They get it producing, they get it performing Live, they get it doing almost anything).

Unfortunately the sound doesnt record at the master out. Which means.. what? That the problem is manifesting at the interface level .. not pre-master.

So:

This is what it appears is happening. Live is reading these clips, and interpreting the data and when it sees new clip intersections coming, it says:

"Oh here is some new data. Let me shuffle some of this stuff around in main memory or at the audio interface, wheres that buffer .. gotta dump some of this stuff and get ready to play the new shit!! Yah!!"

But a split second later, when it actually gets there, it finds out it wasnt as prepared as it thought it was so the whole process goes to crap. "Blahh what do I do now?? Waaa!"

'Its the audio driver then'

Natural conclusion but then why (all other things being equal)

a. is this happening acrost almost all major driver manufacturers and

b. are those same interface / drivers (all other things being equal) not having this same issue - and producing this distinctive "Live Judder" with other major DAWs

At a certain point you have to say - not primarily User Problem and not primarily Third Party Vendor problem.

It is the fault of the application - has been for about 3 years now - and I am sitting here stressing out doing backstands to finish my project, with a deadline Friday nite.

Its like deja vu all over again cause (again) I am on a brand new machine and its Live 6 already and thought the dual plus fixes would get rid of this but no.

FYI at times the only way work is work acrost multiple template. We need to bounce down a chunk of channels into a master stereo version (sans Pads, or sans Drums whatever) .... then bring that up into a fresh template .. warped .. to build new stems around it.

Only way man. Major hassle.

.

[Josh Von]

I also need to add that when your project gets this way, everything else you do in Live also takes foorr-e-verrrrrrr ..

Because it is randomly locking up for 2 - 10 seconds on just about everything you try and move/open/modify/click .. anything. Hosed

.

[Josh Von]

Then when you try and open your next template -- after youve bounced your audio stem, so you can work -- the next one doesnt open.

It gives you "Serious Program Error: Live will Shut Down". And then Live doesnt shut down, it hangs your whole system up.

Then you might as well reboot. I know people know what I am talking about here and they are reproducing it all over the place. Long time.

.

[longjohns]

This is making me want to try to play one of your sets on my computer. I'll even pay for the cost of mailing a CD if necessary, and I'll erase it and burn the CD afterwards if it bothers you!!

[Josh Von]

This is making me want to try to play one of your sets on my computer. I'll even pay for the cost of mailing a CD if necessary, and I'll erase it and burn the CD afterwards if it bothers you!!

I think if you are willing to pay, much better to ship both me and my entire computer to berlin instead

You will be doing a lot of people a big favor. I think

.

[fatrabbit]

I had a problem where when I launched a clip the CPU would spike to 300-400% and live would hiccup for a second or two.

Turns out the problem was the IAC Bus on Mac OS X. Probably not the actual Bus itself but the fact that I had (in MIDI/Sync Preferences) both input and output set to ON on 'Track' and 'Remote' so there must have been some sort of MIDI loop ('cos I was firing clips with MIDI notes).

[Lief]

Hi All - I've just moved to live on the mac coming from cubase on pc all well apart from when i launch a clip in sesion view for the first time live noticably judders then carries on playing. it only seems to be the first time i launch a clip after that the clip plays fine, but as you can imagine it sounds pretty bad live. It does this on every clip

It seems to happen if i leave the set up idle for any legnth of time, about 5 mins is enough to do it. I'm using a macbook pro 2,13 1mb a avastor 800 firwire drive & tc konnekt 24d. I've noticed that the hardrive go's onto standby if not used in a while i'm thinking it could be something to do with this. is there anyway to keep the live. set active or refreshed?

Any help would be much appreciated

Krisstoff

15.4" MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo 2.16Ghz 1Gig Ram & Live 6.01 (just about to update to 6.03) M-Audio Ozone (+ UC-33 & a mouse)

I've been having the same problem, my CPU was at about 40% and for no reason it would shoot up to 160% and plaback would glitch, not good at for a "live" sets ah? , anyway i changed the USB plug to the socket on the right hand side and it seems to have solved the problem!!!, worth a try anyway!!!

[Lief]

Hi All - I've just moved to live on the mac coming from cubase on pc all well apart from when i launch a clip in sesion view for the first time live noticably judders then carries on playing. it only seems to be the first time i launch a clip after that the clip plays fine, but as you can imagine it sounds pretty bad live. It does this on every clip

It seems to happen if i leave the set up idle for any legnth of time, about 5 mins is enough to do it. I'm using a macbook pro 2,13 1mb a avastor 800 firwire drive & tc konnekt 24d. I've noticed that the hardrive go's onto standby if not used in a while i'm thinking it could be something to do with this. is there anyway to keep the live. set active or refreshed?

Any help would be much appreciated

Krisstoff

15.4" MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo 2.16Ghz 1Gig Ram & Live 6.01 (just about to update to 6.03) M-Audio Ozone (+ UC-33 & a mouse)

I've been having the same problem, my CPU was at about 40% and for no reason it would shoot up to 160% and plaback would glitch, not good at for a "live" sets ah? , anyway i changed the USB plug to the socket on the right hand side and it seems to have solved the problem!!!, worth a try anyway!!!

Just wanted to you all know that it didn't fix the problem, it just stoped glitching for a while and then started again, DAMM!!(':x')...
There was an option in live 5 to limit the cpu usage and it used to be at 50% by default and setting it to 80% would sort out the glitching problems, but it doesn't exist in live 6 or i can't see it anyway, anybody know anything about it??.

Cheers..

[longjohns]

That setting is only for testing and setup.

[Lief]

That setting is only for testing and setup.

it is in live6 but it wasn't in version5

[longjohns]

Maybe we're talking about different things

[Lateral]

I have the same problem with clicks and juddering when launching next clip or scene. I run Live on laptop with Athlon64, 512RAM, 60GB HDD with M-Audio Fast Track Pro and UC33e. So, it isn't so fast and capable configuration, but when I used to play Live 5 with at least 100 audio tracks, 2-3 effects per channel, it played perfectly, no clicks whatsoever. I must admit that I also had that problem with waiting (turn on Live, wait for 30 mins, and then nothing would start) though.
Few months ago I've upgraded to Live 6, TOGETHER WITH MY LIBRARY (I wanna f**k myself for that!!!), and everything went wrong. After 20-30 mins of session, Live starts to click, pop, make small pauses, and all that when launching new clip or scene. Sometimes it clicks even when I move fader up on UC33 (mixing two tracks, nothing more).
I've tried almost everything - defraging, new drivers, changing USB ports (it helps, but not for long??!!), closing all unnecessary things like antivirus, printer drivers, I've even installed some stuff for CPU usage control (to make it work constantly at maximum), enlarged page file... Nothing.
Just for that, I've formated HDD and put fresh WinXP for 3 times (!!!), hoping that it'll solve the problem. Nothing again.
Then, I decided to take a step back to Live 5. I cannot regret my library from Live 6, but I'll survive. Now, everything is working MUCH, MUCH better, but now I have clicks and juddering also (after formating HDD once again), but not so often - however, often enough to make me scared of live acts.
And, what did I noticed:
1. Don't have any of these problems with internal shitty card (AC97 I believe)
2. Apparently, Live is getting tired - in all situations, it works smoothly for 20-30 mins, and then it starts to behave silly. Silly indeed.
3. When producing dropouts Live's CPU meter jumps to 100-200%, and at the same time CPU usage in Task Manager remains low. Logical, isn't it?
4. Maybe most important thing - versions of WinXP were not the same. With previous installation of Live 5 I had one version, and after that another - both of them are WinXP Pro SP2, but are not the same. That makes me to suspect in USB drivers.
I also hear that all these problems are present mostly with external sound cards?
WHAT IS WRONG???!!!