where exactly to set 1.1.1 ?

mhand · Post by **mhand** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:02 pm

2 questions really,

When I import a track and warp it Live often sets 1.1.1 a good half or quarter bar ahead of the first beat. Why is this ? appreciate that there may be a bit of silence before the track actually kicks in, but why does Live not pick the first beat as it's starting point ?

So, now I zoom the clip and drag the start marker to the start of the waveform, but where exactly is the best place to set it ? Most of the time it's pretty straightforward and I can cut my loops pretty neatly but every now and then I get a track where the waveform starts quite small but quickly hits a peak and the pattern is repeated for every beat which gives me a headache.

As soon as the waveform starts seems a good bet, but if I set it there and take an 8 bar loop then there can be a slight pause before the first beat of the second pass of the loop. If I drag it in slightly to the peak of the beat then the second pass comes in a bit early.

You also quite often get a small dip and then a straight line up, so do I set it at the start of the dip or the start of the straight line ?

Alternatively Live might pick a point slightly after the first beat. So is this the best place to set the start or do most folk generally drag it back to the start of the waveform ?

I know it's 'use your ears' and like I say, most of the time it's not a problem, but I wondered if it was just life that some tracks are hard to get a loop from or if there were any tips

Cheers

wollej · Post by **wollej** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:05 pm

I usually start warping by setting 1.1.1 to the beat at 9.1.1 before start warping the clip by first trying auto-warp. It seems that autowarp works better with this than start at beginning. After that I set 1.1.1 to the warper at -8 and double click on the warp-marker at 9.

If you encounter a small dip before the peak of a bass-drum, you should set the warp-marker before this (at the zero-crossing point). This gives the bass-drum a bit more punch.

laird · Post by **laird** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:46 pm

I'd set 1.1.1 to the spot of the first peak... not the spot where the sound begins to rise to the first peak (what you call the dip, i think?)

BUT... i'd set the loop start to the point where the sound starts (the dip)... otherwise you will get a CLICK every time it loops. And dont extend the loop length, keep it right at 4 measures worth (or 8 or whatever... just not 4.028163ths worth)

Now, to avoid that CLICK the first time the loop starts... I'll turn the grid down to something small or off, and drag the beginning opf the clip (in arrange mode) a bit to the left... to make sure that I dont just start right at the peak, but get that little rise in there as well.

vinkalmann · Post by **vinkalmann** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:52 pm

Warp markers should be placed on the transient. A transient is where the signal goes from basically nothing, to something. Warp against a known beat all you'll find that warping at the beat peak is going to give you muddy, flat bass.

Take a look at the guide I just put up, it has a section on where to drop the warp points.

Read Warping Guide Here!

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:08 pm

If you warp with your ears and not your eyes, you can't go wrong.

IMO, it really doesn't matter what it looks like, but what it sounds like... it's audio!

vinkalmann · Post by **vinkalmann** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:21 pm

hambone1 wrote:If you warp with your ears and not your eyes, you can't go wrong.

IMO, it really doesn't matter what it looks like, but what it sounds like... it's audio!

True, very true.

laird · Post by **laird** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:46 pm

I suppose it all depends on how close we are zoomed in. Some thuddy kick drums have pretty "slow" attacks, and if you start each one at the 0 point (without and track offset), they'll be late.

But, yes, vinkleman is right, I should not say warp right AT the peak, but at the beginning of the first steep rise. And as hambone says, use your ears... becuase what I say and what he says and what she says all depends on how "zoomed in" on the waverform & the type of sound we are looking at.

I dont know why your loop start is off by a quarter note. Try adjusting the main Grid and see if that helps.

vinkalmann · Post by **vinkalmann** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:35 pm

I think he's referring to the way that Live tends to set the 1.1 marker a quarter of a beat or so before the actual starts when it auto-warps. Like you said, he needs to manually move it to the right start. In my experience auto warp never gets the start correct. It DOES however tend to do a good job on the rest of the track for the most part.

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:47 pm

In my experience of warping 2000+ tracks, autowarp works better with 3-4 seconds of silence before 1.1.1.

I quickly (or it USED to be quick when the 'edit' button wasn't in such a retarded place!) add some silence in Audacity.

I discussed adding the silence at the beginning of the track with the Abe boffins at the Camp, and they weren't sure why, but I'm convinced it does a better autowarping job.

annihilator.1 · Post by **annihilator.1** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 4:27 am

hambone1 wrote: it USED to be quick when the 'edit' button wasn't in such a retarded place!

is that coming back you reckon,it's like losing your arm and you keep going to use it but it ain't there.