define "warm"
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define "warm"
people always use the word warm when discussing how things sound or plugins sound or how hardware sounds. define warm. exactly what does it mean for something to sound "warm"
also, visit my pluggo heeeellllllpppp thread as I'm in great need of some help there.
also, visit my pluggo heeeellllllpppp thread as I'm in great need of some help there.
It was as if someone shook up a 6 foot can of blood soda and suddenly popped the top.
You think the "analog sounds warmer then digital" myth would be worthy of a mythbusters episode?
I wish I had heat sensors in my ears.
Its a pretty touchy subject. The "real pro's" are laughing as we speak.
Since they went over this discussion at least a 100 times before.
But then again... I've heard people using "My stuff sounds warm" as an excuse for a shitty clipping mix.
I wish I had heat sensors in my ears.
Its a pretty touchy subject. The "real pro's" are laughing as we speak.
Since they went over this discussion at least a 100 times before.
But then again... I've heard people using "My stuff sounds warm" as an excuse for a shitty clipping mix.
listen to any of the ambient stuff from aphex twin for warm.
http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplaye ... 11501&q=hi
http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplaye ... 11501&q=hi
This is the best "analogy" I can come up with.
Take a guitar, any guitar......plug it into a motu traveler input 1......have an amp sim setup ( GAP is ok, but GR2 is better......) Use a good quality cord ( mogami makes a very nice instrument cord......kinda pricey though)....
Now, get a UAD solo 610, and You'll need yet another mogami cable ( 6 ft xlr) and plug the guitar into the front input, plug the xlr out to the motu input 2.
Get the levels correct, er, as close as you can.....
Check the "warmth".......you'll shit
You just cannot believe the difference.......it's not a "tone".....it's not really "gain" it's not any of that........it's just smoother......silkier.......um, warmer!
Sorry, but that is the best example I can give at this time......
Take a guitar, any guitar......plug it into a motu traveler input 1......have an amp sim setup ( GAP is ok, but GR2 is better......) Use a good quality cord ( mogami makes a very nice instrument cord......kinda pricey though)....
Now, get a UAD solo 610, and You'll need yet another mogami cable ( 6 ft xlr) and plug the guitar into the front input, plug the xlr out to the motu input 2.
Get the levels correct, er, as close as you can.....
Check the "warmth".......you'll shit
You just cannot believe the difference.......it's not a "tone".....it's not really "gain" it's not any of that........it's just smoother......silkier.......um, warmer!
Sorry, but that is the best example I can give at this time......
Re: define "warm"
Fewer high frequencies. A good solid low-shelf boost will more often than not give you that "vintage" sound, too.Johnisfaster wrote:define warm.
The "warm" sound is very much the opposite of the nineties "hammock" mix style.
Hey eyeknow, what I'd really love is for you to make an a/b recording using the mogami cables and just any old set of cables with proper connectors. I've never really been faced with anyone that could convince me that expensive cables help all that much, but you seem to know your stuff there.
Andreas.
mbp 2.66, osx 10.6.8, 8GB ram.
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'Warm' is merely a light, pleasant form of harmonically related distortion. Everyone else is talking shit about things they don't fully understand or can't articulate. As per usual
Edit: And no, cable type will not affect your recordings unless 1) They are broken or 2) Are picking up interference (ie, not properly shielded). You can run simple test to prove this with RMAA http://audio.rightmark.org/
Edit: And no, cable type will not affect your recordings unless 1) They are broken or 2) Are picking up interference (ie, not properly shielded). You can run simple test to prove this with RMAA http://audio.rightmark.org/
So warm means muffled and slightly distorted?
I'm just playing dumb here..
Any answer given here is open to interpretation.
We all have our own personal reference for what we would call warm.
So the real question is: "where does the term 'warm' come from"?
Synths/tubes/amps that heat up?
Or a warm and fuzzy feeling like from a teddybear/puppy?
Or do you literally feel heat in your ears?
Is there any historical point of reference from where the term got started?
Is there such a thing as "digital warmth"?
I'll chuck in my own theory here:
Warmth is a phrase that is used to describe the inaccuracies of analog sound.
The buzz in the signal, the crackles of the records, the altered sound of "heated up" devices, CV controlled units, distorted harmonic effects...
Hence Dynamic Tube, Saturator and vinyl distortion
Still... why is it called warmth?
I'm just playing dumb here..
Any answer given here is open to interpretation.
We all have our own personal reference for what we would call warm.
So the real question is: "where does the term 'warm' come from"?
Synths/tubes/amps that heat up?
Or a warm and fuzzy feeling like from a teddybear/puppy?
Or do you literally feel heat in your ears?
Is there any historical point of reference from where the term got started?
Is there such a thing as "digital warmth"?
I'll chuck in my own theory here:
Warmth is a phrase that is used to describe the inaccuracies of analog sound.
The buzz in the signal, the crackles of the records, the altered sound of "heated up" devices, CV controlled units, distorted harmonic effects...
Hence Dynamic Tube, Saturator and vinyl distortion
Still... why is it called warmth?
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Hmm, yes. I have no idea why it's called warmth, rather than depth, or fullness or anything else. Warmth doesn't need to be muffled though, it can still be crisp and vibrant. Try the demo of Voxengo Warmifier and you'll get a good idea of the subtlety and character of 'warmth'.hoffman2k wrote: Warmth is a phrase that is used to describe the inaccuracies of analog sound.
The buzz in the signal, the crackles of the records, the altered sound of "heated up" devices, CV controlled units, distorted harmonic effects...
It's not that you are dumb - a lot of musical and sonic terms are extremely difficult to portray in words alone. The difference between something sounding cold and something warm is much more subtle than I can describe to you. It's like the difference between 'white' and 'eggshell white'. It's a slight musical distortion that changes the character of the sound without ever making it's self obviously apparent. I wish I had the language skills to do it justice, but Voxengo Warmifier will help. Or Voxengo Lampthruster
Last edited by Funkstar De Luxe on Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
I've heard that to the human ear, a certain amount of distortion is actually very pleasing...that certain harmonics and subtones become present and enhance the sound. Warmth, to me, is a derivative of this notion...that as you add some distorted gain, harmonics and subtones create a richer and fuller sound.
I think the easiest way to hear warmth is to listen to the output of any guitar connected to a real amplifier, or any analog synthesizer. These days, they are rare, but the Andromeda comes to mind...but even samples of a true 909 or 808. Compare those to say Rebirth. I think the main differentiating characteristics would be that the analog hardware has a thicker sound, with some high end noise/hiss and an overall crunchiness, while the software emulation would be a bit thinner, cleaner, and generally leaner sounding.
I'm not here to say if one is better than the other. Too much "warmth" usually leads to muddy mixes, and back in the analog days, your problem was to get a mix to be bright enough. These days of pure digital, the trend is to get your sound to be "analog" or "valvy" or "warm", whatever the fuck that means. I tend to use what sounds good to my ears, and most of my mixes have a combination of hardware and organic instruments, with software synths, to create an overall balanced mix.
I think the easiest way to hear warmth is to listen to the output of any guitar connected to a real amplifier, or any analog synthesizer. These days, they are rare, but the Andromeda comes to mind...but even samples of a true 909 or 808. Compare those to say Rebirth. I think the main differentiating characteristics would be that the analog hardware has a thicker sound, with some high end noise/hiss and an overall crunchiness, while the software emulation would be a bit thinner, cleaner, and generally leaner sounding.
I'm not here to say if one is better than the other. Too much "warmth" usually leads to muddy mixes, and back in the analog days, your problem was to get a mix to be bright enough. These days of pure digital, the trend is to get your sound to be "analog" or "valvy" or "warm", whatever the fuck that means. I tend to use what sounds good to my ears, and most of my mixes have a combination of hardware and organic instruments, with software synths, to create an overall balanced mix.
which is why (I think) DSP aliasing is often the cause of 'non-warmth' , as it produces non musical harmonics.Funkstar De Luxe wrote:'Warm' is merely a light, pleasant form of harmonically related distortion. Everyone else is talking shit about things they don't fully understand or can't articulate. As per usual
Edit: And no, cable type will not affect your recordings unless 1) They are broken or 2) Are picking up interference (ie, not properly shielded). You can run simple test to prove this with RMAA http://audio.rightmark.org/
many software instruments and effects produce aliased frequencies and that contributes to their digital sound. To make the distinction, everyday users coined this 'warmth' idea - to differentiate between harsh digital aliasing and analogue aliasing. There's also the shelving filter design, but I digress.
I don't remember hearing about relative warmth prior to the DX7 era. Everything was 'warm' then, or alternatively - it was harder to produce non musical aliasing during common processes.
yes, I am old.