Changing Time Signatures

mousetrapreplica · Post by **mousetrapreplica** » Wed May 30, 2007 4:18 pm

I am having issues changing from a 4/4 section to a 3/4 section in a tune I am composing. I am using one track to do all the beats, the first four beats are in 4/4(clips 1-4) and the next four are in 3/4(clips 5-8).

If I set the overall time signature to 4/4 it works fine with the 4/4 beats, but when I change to 3/4 time the beats come in at the wrong spot(because of the overall time signature).

You can't use MIDI to fix this because the overall time signature can't be altered via MIDI.

What do I have to do to make the transition from the 4/4 to the 3/4 seamless?

You're input would be appreciated!!

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Wed May 30, 2007 5:27 pm

What issues are you having?

The general nature of time signatures and Live was beaten to death here
http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 169#479169

Live doesn't handle time signatures very well, but it's not meant to be a traditional compositional tool.

krank · Post by **krank** » Wed May 30, 2007 6:31 pm

Write them a mail about it. Seriously, we need to put the heat on the Abes about it.

Clearscreen · Post by **Clearscreen** » Thu May 31, 2007 12:20 am

if you're in arrangement view, why don't you just have all the 3/4 clips set as 3/4 time in the clip view and leave the master as 4/4. that way it's all */4 based and should work fine. you just need to keep an eye on where you change signatures as the bar measures at the top will be meaningless...

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Thu May 31, 2007 2:05 am

Clearscreen wrote: why don't you just have all the 3/4 clips set as 3/4 time in the clip view

the time signature fields on a clip are for display only and effect absolutely nothing about how the clip plays.

Clearscreen · Post by **Clearscreen** » Thu May 31, 2007 3:02 am

the time signature fields on a clip are for display only and effect absolutely nothing about how the clip plays.

you're right. it does make it easier to warp a 9/7 clip than using good old 4/4 though... it's essentially organisational i guess and it doesn't change anything other than the way the clip is displayed in the clip window. similarly though, if you do set a clip as 9/8 it'll still play/loop to that length relative to the master signature. this means that if i set a clip at 3/4 and loop at 3/4 but the master tempo is 4/4 it'll play/loop in 3 beats of the metronome instead of 4.

like i said, this throws the bar measures out and it isn't as useful as master signature changes but it can be useful.

mousetrapreplica · Post by **mousetrapreplica** » Thu May 31, 2007 3:15 am

hmmm.....

this is disconcerting!

I just wish you could control the global time signature with a clip launch.

This is how I wouldlike to do it:

1. While playing 4/4 clip(or whatever), click on the clip with a different time signature which is set to change the global time signature on launch.

2. If there are other clips going they would be set by default to simply keep going as they are(as is the case now, when you manually change the global time signature) OR you could set the individual clips to change when the global time signature is changed, ie if you're going to go from 4/4 to 3/4 chop off a beat of you discretion.

or another thought I've just had is to do it with the scene launch buttons, similar to the way you can change overall BPM.

Anyways..... it seems I have got the reply I was dreading......

mousetrapreplica · Post by **mousetrapreplica** » Thu May 31, 2007 3:21 am

what I am going to have to do when I get to performing this live is to manually change the global time signature before I trigger the 3/4 clips.

This is a pain in the arse because I am a guitarist and use Live to record live guitar loops, and to trigger simpler, sampler and operator with my MIDI equipped guitar. I control all of the above in Live with a behringer FCB1010 foot controller, so I rarely need to touch my laptop at all, and I like it that way.

( http://www.myspace.com/mousetrapreplicamusic if yer interested)

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Thu May 31, 2007 5:36 am

Clearscreen wrote: this means that if i set a clip at 3/4 and loop at 3/4 but the master tempo is 4/4 it'll play/loop in 3 beats of the metronome instead of 4.

Maybe I just don't agree with how you're putting it. Changing the clip signature IS changing how the beats are displayed in the clip window...

but the only reason a clip will loop after 3 beats is because you set the loop brace there. Changing the signature is helping you see it more easily, I guess?

thelocalhost · Post by **thelocalhost** » Thu May 31, 2007 7:07 am

mousetrapreplica wrote:hmmm.....

this is disconcerting!

I just wish you could control the global time signature with a clip launch.

This is how I wouldlike to do it:

1. While playing 4/4 clip(or whatever), click on the clip with a different time signature which is set to change the global time signature on launch.

2. If there are other clips going they would be set by default to simply keep going as they are(as is the case now, when you manually change the global time signature) OR you could set the individual clips to change when the global time signature is changed, ie if you're going to go from 4/4 to 3/4 chop off a beat of you discretion..

I think its more complicated than that. What would it do when you play 2 (or more) clips of different time signatures at the same time. What meter does the click correspond to?

This is why (I assume) time signature changes haven't been introduced. I can't believe LIve is in it's 6th iteration and this feature hasn't been added. It's an embarrassment to the software.

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=64771

That's my bitching about the lack of time signature changes.

There have been rumors about proper time changing in a 6.x version. But this hasn't been verified, or officially stated.

sarcazm · Post by **sarcazm** » Thu May 31, 2007 7:35 am

Until Live allows time signature changes, you're gonna have to fudge it.

The easiest way for your 4/4 and 3/4 problem is to make the master time sig 12/8. For the 4/4 put the downbeats on 1,4,7,10. For 3/4 the downbeats are 1,5,9.

By the way, you can get some nice polyrhythms going by mixing up 3/4 and 4/4 time in 12/8.

S

cheameup · Post by **cheameup** » Thu May 31, 2007 10:33 am

im gonna say the A word here ... Acid has had markers for time signature and temop changes for ages . I use acid as well as live and live is much more advanced than acid INMO . But it is one feature live could use