Seriously. . . . . what does this mean to me? I'm that familiar with the program. The cycling '74 site is not that informative if you don't already know what it is. I get to connect boxes with names on them?
Is this cool if I'm not into programming? I love playing and writing, and sound design, but unless it's pretty easy to get my head around, I don't have time for programming. I played with Csound and Reaktor for years and it kinda sucked the creativity from me.
Does anyone have any nifty Max/MSP examples they'd like to show off? I'd love to see what this can do, and why some are so excited about the Abes and '74 making babies!
Thanks,
-b
Max/MSP? What does it mean?
If you didn't like reactor then you won't like MAX/MSP. It's essentially a modular environment, you build up a patch to do most anything you'd want a computer to do by connecting say a 2 and another 2 with a + to get four. Then once you've done that you're suddenly Autechre and can release anything you like and make millions!
-
corygilbert
- Posts: 828
- Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:37 pm
- Location: kyoto, japan
- Contact:
Re: Max/MSP? What does it mean?
www.audiooo.compopsicko wrote:Does anyone have any nifty Max/MSP examples they'd like to show off?
Thanks,
-b
http://www.studiotoolz.net/
http://www.essl.at/
just a few...
-
burgessa23
- Posts: 176
- Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2002 12:33 am
- Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Dan Nigrin / Defective Records / https://defectiverecords.com
DP Editor / Fauxmo (Fizmo editor) / Cyclic, M185 & Klee Sequencers / MC-2oh2, MC-202, MC-4 & DSX Hacks
DP Editor / Fauxmo (Fizmo editor) / Cyclic, M185 & Klee Sequencers / MC-2oh2, MC-202, MC-4 & DSX Hacks
MAX/MSP is exactly like programming in C. Instead of functions and modular bits of code you have boxes with inputs and outputs, just like function calls in C take in parameters and send other parameters out. In fact, you can take C or Java code and put them into a graphical box (called an Object) in MAX/MSP.
MSP is the audio side of MAX/MSP, MAX is the collection of basic commands, Jitter is the Video end of things, etc.
Buying MAX/MSP to make music is like buying a pile of wood and tools to make your own guitar so you can learn to play Purple Haze.
Like C programming you have to know half a dozen commands to do something basic, so you do have to dig into MAX/MSP and learn some commands before you can do ANYTYHING.
One thing about it is that the help system ROCKS. Right click on an object and click HELP. That pops open a help example for that object, and you can modify and play with their example, and right-click-help on that object and so on.
MSP is the audio side of MAX/MSP, MAX is the collection of basic commands, Jitter is the Video end of things, etc.
Buying MAX/MSP to make music is like buying a pile of wood and tools to make your own guitar so you can learn to play Purple Haze.
Like C programming you have to know half a dozen commands to do something basic, so you do have to dig into MAX/MSP and learn some commands before you can do ANYTYHING.
One thing about it is that the help system ROCKS. Right click on an object and click HELP. That pops open a help example for that object, and you can modify and play with their example, and right-click-help on that object and so on.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
Personally I really dislike it (had to do a project for my degree in it recently).
If you want to do modular things, I would recommend Reaktor or Plogue Bidule, as I reckon they make more sense and are less harsh on the eye.
There are a lot of quirks with Max/MSP that you have to be aware of. I was using the bpatcher method to host patches within my main patch (frontend). But if you go into the patch contained within the bpatcher and move the inlets or outlets so that they're swapped horizontally (the outlet that was on the left is now on the right) then all the connections you've made from the bpatcher in your frontend to other places are now connected the wrong things! Hope that makes sense (probably not). F*** Max!
If you want to do modular things, I would recommend Reaktor or Plogue Bidule, as I reckon they make more sense and are less harsh on the eye.
There are a lot of quirks with Max/MSP that you have to be aware of. I was using the bpatcher method to host patches within my main patch (frontend). But if you go into the patch contained within the bpatcher and move the inlets or outlets so that they're swapped horizontally (the outlet that was on the left is now on the right) then all the connections you've made from the bpatcher in your frontend to other places are now connected the wrong things! Hope that makes sense (probably not). F*** Max!
Like all complex software, Max has its peculiar quirks like that (I know *exactly* what you're talking about!).
Max/MSP is great if you really want to work from the ground up in building almost anything (including video/visuals if you include the Jitter package). IMHO it's at a higher level than C or other programming languages (though as pointed out you can use Java code or Javascript, or even lots of other languages, within your Max/MSP work if you like).
If you're more interested in working at a slightly higher level, and sacrificing some flexibility, then I agree Reaktor/Plogue is probably better. For me, there's nothing better than Max/MSP. And I think the relationship between Ableton and Cycling will undoubtedly bring some cool stuff in the future...
Max/MSP is great if you really want to work from the ground up in building almost anything (including video/visuals if you include the Jitter package). IMHO it's at a higher level than C or other programming languages (though as pointed out you can use Java code or Javascript, or even lots of other languages, within your Max/MSP work if you like).
If you're more interested in working at a slightly higher level, and sacrificing some flexibility, then I agree Reaktor/Plogue is probably better. For me, there's nothing better than Max/MSP. And I think the relationship between Ableton and Cycling will undoubtedly bring some cool stuff in the future...
Dan Nigrin / Defective Records / https://defectiverecords.com
DP Editor / Fauxmo (Fizmo editor) / Cyclic, M185 & Klee Sequencers / MC-2oh2, MC-202, MC-4 & DSX Hacks
DP Editor / Fauxmo (Fizmo editor) / Cyclic, M185 & Klee Sequencers / MC-2oh2, MC-202, MC-4 & DSX Hacks
just got into Max about a week ago ( still using the demo ), was using Bomes and MIDI OX for some MIDI stuff, but wanted some more flexiblilty, it has totally changed the way i look at MIDI. The environment is totally intuitive, very gentle learning curve. Just spend a half hour with it and you can see the endless potential it offfers. Funny though, whenever i tell peeps that i just got into MAX, the response is always " Well, i guess thats the end of you actually making music". Thats the thing, Be careful!!!!
i'm trying reeeeeally hard to get into Max, this is like my 50th attempt. making an effort to actually walk through all the tutorials, in order, and really build a few working things before my 30 day demo is up.
it's cool, i see the potential to do a lot of cool stuff. but in the time it took me to get through a single chapter in the fundamentals PDF i actually built something pretty damn cool in Bidule.
i don't even think Bidule has a manual aside from the OS X help menu stuff. pretty damn intuitive and easy to use. not too disgusting looking either. they should let you color objects though. once you've got 100 on the screen with cables going all over the place it becomes a real clusterfuck and you have to zoom in and out a lot. still, i know i could eventually hit a roadblock with Bidule as its just not as deep as Max, not as old either. awesome good time though.
and not for nothing, but i find Reaktor to be the most difficult off all three. Reaktor is just weird in the beginning. even the pre-built shit. you load one up, you can see audio meters and shit moving around but you don't hear a thing. i find myself constantly having to turn shit on and off and route audio and midi all the time. i'm sure it's partly that i'm just an idiot but i tried sludging through some Reaktor tutorials and didn't get very far. i mostly just use it for the preset ensembles, those are dope.
it's cool, i see the potential to do a lot of cool stuff. but in the time it took me to get through a single chapter in the fundamentals PDF i actually built something pretty damn cool in Bidule.
i don't even think Bidule has a manual aside from the OS X help menu stuff. pretty damn intuitive and easy to use. not too disgusting looking either. they should let you color objects though. once you've got 100 on the screen with cables going all over the place it becomes a real clusterfuck and you have to zoom in and out a lot. still, i know i could eventually hit a roadblock with Bidule as its just not as deep as Max, not as old either. awesome good time though.
and not for nothing, but i find Reaktor to be the most difficult off all three. Reaktor is just weird in the beginning. even the pre-built shit. you load one up, you can see audio meters and shit moving around but you don't hear a thing. i find myself constantly having to turn shit on and off and route audio and midi all the time. i'm sure it's partly that i'm just an idiot but i tried sludging through some Reaktor tutorials and didn't get very far. i mostly just use it for the preset ensembles, those are dope.
-
noisetonepause
- Posts: 4938
- Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2002 3:38 pm
- Location: Sticks and stones
Tone - It's really more like Python than it is C, though, isn't it? No memory management, not a lot of worrying about int vs. long... really a lot further from the metal than C, I reckon.
Python isn't a bad thing to learn, BTW. I really should get round to it...
Python isn't a bad thing to learn, BTW. I really should get round to it...
Suit #1: I mean, have you got any insight as to why a bright boy like this would jeopardize the lives of millions?
Suit #2: No, sir, he says he does this sort of thing for fun.
Suit #2: No, sir, he says he does this sort of thing for fun.
tjwett wrote:i'm trying reeeeeally hard to get into Max, this is like my 50th attempt. making an effort to actually walk through all the tutorials, in order, and really build a few working things before my 30 day demo is up.
it's cool, i see the potential to do a lot of cool stuff. but in the time it took me to get through a single chapter in the fundamentals PDF i actually built something pretty damn cool in Bidule.
i don't even think Bidule has a manual aside from the OS X help menu stuff. pretty damn intuitive and easy to use. not too disgusting looking either. they should let you color objects though. once you've got 100 on the screen with cables going all over the place it becomes a real clusterfuck and you have to zoom in and out a lot. still, i know i could eventually hit a roadblock with Bidule as its just not as deep as Max, not as old either. awesome good time though.
and not for nothing, but i find Reaktor to be the most difficult off all three. Reaktor is just weird in the beginning. even the pre-built shit. you load one up, you can see audio meters and shit moving around but you don't hear a thing. i find myself constantly having to turn shit on and off and route audio and midi all the time. i'm sure it's partly that i'm just an idiot but i tried sludging through some Reaktor tutorials and didn't get very far. i mostly just use it for the preset ensembles, those are dope.
I think you definately have to have an idea in mind , and then work towards it. My first project with MAX was to tke my existing MIDI OX and Bomes Translation stuff and port them to MAX, very simple stuff to do with MAX, but a great project to get into it with.
Definately hear you on Reaktor, I tried it a couple times, definately had that non-user friendly-native instruments touch to it ( OK excluding Massive ). Id click on things and nothing would happen.... so i just gave it the old "fuck this"