Live 7 "Better" sounding?
Live 7 "Better" sounding?
So LIVE 7 sounds better? I guess those of us who argued for years that Live sounded more mid-rangey and muddy compared to Cubase and Logic weren't so crazy after all.
-
- Posts: 244
- Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 9:10 am
- Location: Glasgow
-
- Posts: 5788
- Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:05 pm
- Location: Melbourne Australia
- Contact:
^
OS X.5 MacBook Core 2Duo 2.2ghz, 2Gig RAM Mackie Onyx 400F m-audio BX8's, Oxygen 8, Zoom H-4, Alesis Masterlink, Bitstream 3x
http://www.udpmusic.com
http://www.udpmusic.com
-
- Posts: 760
- Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:51 am
Re: Live 7 "Better" sounding?
no, it's just that nobody who said it sounded midrangey and muddy could put together a cohesive statement to back it up. there's still no reason to use those terms other than you pulled them out of your ass. how about 'tinny and bass heavy'?dfusion wrote:So LIVE 7 sounds better? I guess those of us who argued for years that Live sounded more mid-rangey and muddy compared to Cubase and Logic weren't so crazy after all.
every DAW has drawbacks, the problem is few people take the time to research what they claim to hear.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
Well, the effects (EQ8, Compressor) can sound better now and the 64-bit summing engine should allow better output when mixing lots of tracks with lots of effects. But we have to wait for the audio fact-sheet to be published until we know for sure where 64-bit is used exactly (pre-fader, post-fader, pre-effect, post-effect etc).
Without using internal effects - that is with third-party plug-ins - there should hardly be a difference between Live 6 and Live 7 beside the 64-bit summing. To make that clear, 32-bit floating-point uses 24 bits before the comma plus 8 bits behind the comma. 64-bit floating point uses either 48 or 49 bits before the comma and either 15 or 16 bits behind the comma (single/double precision). Both are adequate for calculating 24 bit audio data, but 64-bit will allow more precise in-between steps for calculations of effects and summing with smaller rounding errors/aliasing steps (a bit like going from 127 steps 7-bit Midi to 16383 14-bit Midi). In the end it will all be rounded down to your rendering bit-rate (usually 16-bit or 24-bit, sometimes 32-bit for further processing).
As far as I understand bit-rate is more about dynamics and not about frequency (that's in the domain of sample-rate). But certain frequencies may better cut through with higher bit-rates/precision that formerly have been "masked" by quantisation/rounding errors in a mix with more prominent frequencies.
Without using internal effects - that is with third-party plug-ins - there should hardly be a difference between Live 6 and Live 7 beside the 64-bit summing. To make that clear, 32-bit floating-point uses 24 bits before the comma plus 8 bits behind the comma. 64-bit floating point uses either 48 or 49 bits before the comma and either 15 or 16 bits behind the comma (single/double precision). Both are adequate for calculating 24 bit audio data, but 64-bit will allow more precise in-between steps for calculations of effects and summing with smaller rounding errors/aliasing steps (a bit like going from 127 steps 7-bit Midi to 16383 14-bit Midi). In the end it will all be rounded down to your rendering bit-rate (usually 16-bit or 24-bit, sometimes 32-bit for further processing).
As far as I understand bit-rate is more about dynamics and not about frequency (that's in the domain of sample-rate). But certain frequencies may better cut through with higher bit-rates/precision that formerly have been "masked" by quantisation/rounding errors in a mix with more prominent frequencies.
The same set (created in L6) opened and immediately rendered with no dither and no HiQ mode FX: http://www.virb.com/live7vslive6Tarekith wrote:Sounds the same to me ?????
Listen in particular to the hi-hats, especially the ping-pong delays decay. Better definition. Also, the bass swells on beat 3 (after 0:19) don't get as tubby. I'd characterize it as generally having more aural space for things to exist. Not sure what that is attributable to at this point without doing some testing. Waiting on the final version before any effort goes into that process.
The difference in your two renders is very subtle but I DO notice it.
I might not have noticed if you hadn't pointed it out to me. But since I know what to listen for I can hone in on it. Definitely the bass is more noticeable than the hihats. The stereo imaging in the hihats is a tiny bit clearer though and I can localize where they're coming from a little better. Again, we're talking subtle here!
What kind of reverb were you using on the percussion sounds? I liked the space you created with it.
I might not have noticed if you hadn't pointed it out to me. But since I know what to listen for I can hone in on it. Definitely the bass is more noticeable than the hihats. The stereo imaging in the hihats is a tiny bit clearer though and I can localize where they're coming from a little better. Again, we're talking subtle here!
What kind of reverb were you using on the percussion sounds? I liked the space you created with it.
-
- Posts: 343
- Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:48 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, CA USA
Nogi: Your sets sound like midi synth VSTs not audio. With 64 bit processing the VST synths may sound different (particularly if they are of Live's own rewritten instruments). But in processing audio (summing engine) there should not be an audible difference. Try the same experiment with audio files with standard 3rd party VST effects and you shouldn't get any differnce. Did you use any of Live's instruments? BTW.....It's hard to believe that you can hear audible difference through streaming audio.
My $0.02
My $0.02
Live 8.4.2 / Win 8 Pro 64 bit / Core 2 Quad 2.66 GHZ / 8 Gb ram
Presonus Firepod / Axiom 49 / PadKontrol
Various guitars, keyboards, sax and friends
Presonus Firepod / Axiom 49 / PadKontrol
Various guitars, keyboards, sax and friends
In this instance, all tracks were frozen (not flattened) in L6 before rendering except for the drum kits which are samples played back through Impulse. (This wasn't any attempt at scientific variable limiting but rather because this particular set brings my Core2Quad to its knees.) I am very open to the idea that the source of the difference is not in the summing but as a result of revision to some other components. The tracks I supplied were more about showing that something was different, and to my ears superior, without getting into the whys and wherefores at this time which would be solely conjecture. I am going to experiment more, however. Cheers.dancerchris wrote:Nogi: Your sets sound like midi synth VSTs not audio. With 64 bit processing the VST synths may sound different (particularly if they are of Live's own rewritten instruments). But in processing audio (summing engine) there should not be an audible difference. Try the same experiment with audio files with standard 3rd party VST effects and you shouldn't get any differnce. Did you use any of Live's instruments? BTW.....It's hard to believe that you can hear audible difference through streaming audio.
My $0.02
Oh darn, I was hoping it sounded cooler.stonee wrote:that was the first thing i noticed on live 7 when I opened it, it sounded warmer.
9.0.4 Suite-Samsung Chronos 7 laptop(17")-12GB RAM-Samsung 840 series SSD(250GB)-iPad2-Maschine-TouchAble-SaffirePro24-Saffire6USB-Komplete Audio 6-Axiom25-PCR300-Nocturn-LaunchPad-QuNeo-QuNexus
miTunes
miTunes