Good online mastering?

[vinkalmann]

www.nebulae.com

+1. This guy can work magic. I've heard many before and after examples of his work, and he's definitely a pro.

Agreed. Not to mention he's apt to tell you what he's doing to! That info is GOLD.

[dj superflat]

no offense, but if neb were a pro at mastering, that would be his only job (almost by definition). so far as i know, that's not the case. and you only pay for true "pro" mastering if you have a true "pro" product (one that can justify the expense). if you're asking here (and don't already know), you obviously don't need "pro" mastering.

[nebulae]

no offense, but if neb were a pro at mastering, that would be his only job (almost by definition). so far as i know, that's not the case. and you only pay for true "pro" mastering if you have a true "pro" product (one that can justify the expense). if you're asking here (and don't already know), you obviously don't need "pro" mastering.

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, and that's the opinion most "pro" shops love to hear, as it keeps them in business...

A parallel debate exists for software synths vs. hardware, and you pay about 5x-10x for hardware, but many would argue that softsynths are just as good or better...With mastering houses, you pay not just for experience and good ears, but also for all that lovely "vintage" hardware. Having said that, I've heard lots of recent records that sound horrible, and many of them that sound really good. My point here is that just because you pay more doesn't mean it'll be better, and conversely, just because someone masters it inexpensively and without expensive hardware doesn't mean it can't stack up with the big boys.

My approach is simple - make a great sounding mix using analog emulations, and my ears tell me that I can get pretty close. Along the way, my goal is to empower everyone to be able to master their own mixes with the tools we already have.

As for doing this as my only job, well, that's a fairly acute statement...there are lots of people who do more than one job. I'm fortunate enough to have three professions, one of them fulfilling my love for music and helping other musicians succeed. Sadly, it doesn't pay as well as I'd like. Does that make my work less "pro"? Well, again, you're entitled to that opinion, but I'd say that's fairly narrow-minded. Anyone on this forum, whether newbie or veteran, could create a great song using only their laptop and the software tools they have. So I'll have to disagree with you about your definition of "pro".

But this thread isn't about me or what I do for a living. The bottom line is that there are options for everyone out there. You can pay a "pro" studio lots of money, or you can learn for yourself and use some very good mastering plugs out there and create the next independent underground hit. If you're in the second category, email me, or Tarekith, or anyone else who's able to help you get there.

PS - thanks to everyone with supporting posts...I've truly enjoyed working on all your mixes!! *hugs*

[Tarekith]

Guess I'm coming late to this party, but here's my info if anyone is interested:

http://tarekith.com/studio.htm

[beats me]

I'm personally for supporting the people I "know" and as has been said many times if your mix sounds like shit to begin with then no amount of mastering is going to save it.

[Moody]

I'm personally for supporting the people I "know" and as has been said many times if your mix sounds like shit to begin with then no amount of mastering is going to save it.

+1, Exactly why I asked Neb about the Mixing as well.

[dj superflat]

neb, believe me, i'm not knocking what you do, how good you are, etc. but you're not going to claim that you're the equivalent of going to gateway and getting bob ludwig to do the mastering are you? people throw around the word pro without having clue (not you, others), probably because they're not remotely at the level where they would need to even consider shelling out the cash on the off chance that it will help add that 1% that takes them over the top.

like everything in life, there are endless levels of specialization, skill, etc. if you want to claim to be a pro masterer, go right ahead, that's your call. but with mastering, perhaps more so than any other part of music production, there really are pretty clearcut distinctions between true mastering houses and studios that will add some compression, eq, and call it a day. put another way, most people and studios who purport to master things don't, really, even if they're well meaning. it's more like just another glorified level of mixing, particularly if they're using stems to reshape the mix.

doesn't mean you can't get great results just about anywhere. but if you want to ensure great results, most people go to one of the very few places that have mastered just about everything for a long time, in part because they really are that good.

this is more like the arguments over mics, than HW vs. SW. yes, some great vocals have been recorded on dynamics mics into a board. yes, you can get great results with cheap mics, even on vox. but it's not all placebo with the great old tube mics -- many of them really just sound that much better depending on the vocalist.

[nebulae]

neb, believe me, i'm not knocking what you do, how good you are, etc.

No offense taken...like I said, you're of course entitled to your opinion, and you make some good points

[Tarekith]

My $.02:

Fact is that most professional mastering is still way out of the price range of most musicians, especially the type who go on forums asking for recommendations for online mastering houses. One poster said he spent what, thousands?

Now, I'm not at all knocking professional mastering engineers, I hold those guys in the utmost respect and can only hope that one day I too can be worthy to call myself that. Seriously, it's like my dream job, and one reason I spend so much time practicing it.

But the truth is that there's a lot of people who don't have the gear, and more likely the years of experience, to know how to make something they put a lot of time into sound polished and not amaterish. And I think that's where people like Neb and myself fit in, maybe not 100% pro's, but we have the years and ears to help those newer to producing in getting a more professional sound. Certainly a professional mastering house is better than we are (maybe I shouldn't speak for Neb though), but then again, we're not competing with those types of businesses.

If you want 100% analog processing path, or 5.1 mastering straight to Dvd, I'm not your guy. But if you want a decent price on making your tunes sound a lot better than they likely do now, and maybe some advice on what to work on next time, we're the kind of people you talk to. If you want results like Gateway or Digital Domain, then obviously it's going to cost you a LOT more.

[nebulae]

^ well said...in complete agreement

[Tarekith]

One more thing.

In the past, the career path to becoming a mastering engineer was pretty well defined. You started as a tape op, graduated to assitant audio engineer, maybe went freelance, then did some mixing, and finally after all that time decided to go the mastering route.

Well... that path is pretty much dead for all but a few people. Studios don't work like that anymore, and in the future, we'll start seeing more audio professionals coming up the 'ranks' based on jobs they got for themselves, in effect, teaching themselves.

There's more than one way to get experience is all I'm trying to say. We're in a weird transitional time right now, where the people who work on your tunes tomorrow, might not always get where they are the way we expect today.

[nebulae]

What I find interesting also is that with the proliferation of DAWs and the drastic reduction in the cost of entry, people are going out on their own, producing and engineering on their own, and as a result trying lots of very interesting and unique techniques. There are new kinds sounds that artists are finding for themselves, and it's really blowing away a lot of older standards, from when you went to particular studios, used particular producers, and then mastered with particular mastering houses. Experimentation is now the norm, whereas before it was too expensive, with a studio on the clock and a label budget breathing down your neck.

Like Tarekith said, and I concur, there is a lot of respect for the old way. But given the price being out of reach for most, and given that there are new frontiers to explore for a lot more people now in this game, there are entirely new sounds emerging and I'm loving this new paradigm.

It's always nice (and it happens a lot these days) that I hear something on the radio, and it's not nearly as good as something that I heard on the web that was cooked up on someone's computer.

[dj superflat]

i think alot of times things cooked up on computers, as you put it, are better because they effectively weren't mastered. that is, as you rightly point out, lots of studios effectively have a mastering racket where they claim to do mastering even if it's not really a focus or speciality (they've gotta make money somehow). folk like that can seriously mess up your mix, because they'll feel obligated to do something, just to prove their "value." i've known lots of folk who spent money for mid-level or whatever you want to call it mastering, only to have it just kill their mixes (generally through over compression). by contrast, someone who's humble enough to serve as little more than a second set of ears, to help out with (e.g.) some eq and levels, can do wonders, even if they don't have the priciest toys.

[Tarekith]

Indeed, as I say in my mastering guide:

http://tarekith.com/assets/mastering.html

I really don't think people need to worry about mastering, thy should really be focused on getting a good mixdown. Do that and you can 'master' it with your hands over your ears for all intents. I will never in a million years understand why someone would use a multiband compressor as part of the mastering process on one of their own songs.

[jamief]

http://www.emasters.co.uk/

Highly recommended - run by Kevin Metcalfe who has a list of credits as long as your arm. I've spent thousands with them and I've always come away more than pleased.

Thanks for that