Why not have demos which involve your music?

Eza · Post by **Eza** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 12:49 pm

I just wonder why they can't have more involving demos. The demos which came with the er, demo, are really lacklustre. That bland music looping over and over and over and over......

If this style of music is not suited to your tastes then it is very difficult to get a grasp of what Live can do 'for you'!

So would it not be possible to either have a demo in various styles or even better, to have a demo which makes you create your own song in your own style. Introducing your own midi parts and breaks, etc would make the potential user see exactly the benefit it could make to him.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:44 pm

it is such a good point

LaQ · Post by **LaQ** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:47 pm

i believe they tried to develop a certain style/sound which should be associated with live. if you listen to the presets of the simpler and most of the internal fx, you'll know what i mean.

only now with live4's creative capabilities in all styles of music this concept doesn't seem to make any more sense... i guess they'll have a new musical identity soon.

suburbanbather · Post by **suburbanbather** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 2:15 pm

Yes, at first the intro the organ makes me think its going to be a Flanger song, but then it goes into regular everyday boring soft jazz. At least they did not use the demo song for a shameless monolake promotion, (would not bother me though). You can't please everybody and it would be dumb to put a demo track of every genre. So here comes the demo of a style that god knows who would use live to make with. Lets use a No-mans style of music so we don't corner or market our softerware into one genre. Hey everybody remember how lame presets that came on hardware synths and drummachines were, well the cycle continues with software.

Eza · Post by **Eza** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 3:43 pm

tbh, i don't think having preset demos to download in whichever style you want would be bad. when i started out it was nice to have presets in drum machines so you could understand the patterns better (actually not true, first drum machine was a dmx but you get the idea, i've nothing against presets).

reason has plenty of presets!!

anyway, rather than presets, why not (i think i've said this) lead the potential user in a better way by asking him/her to introduce a loop of their choice here, another there a bit of midi, etc.

then surely you could really see the potential.

c'mon ableton, some demo downloads to input into the er, demo.

suburbanbather · Post by **suburbanbather** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:21 pm

Point taken Eza, I have nothing against presets either because they give you a springboard to jump off. I just think they are always lame which is good so that you are inspired to make them into something that is good for you to use while making them your own.

"Its not what you have, its how you use what you have"

tjwett · Post by **tjwett** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:36 pm

i just don't even see the benefit of having a demo song in any particular style at all. what does it matter? all you are seeing is wav files and midi notes anyway. what's the difference what style it is. for the most part, Live works exactly the same no matter what style of music you are making. it's not like it has different sets of tools for each genre. i don't get it.

Komplex · Post by **Komplex** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:09 pm

tjwett wrote:i just don't even see the benefit of having a demo song in any particular style at all. what does it matter? all you are seeing is wav files and midi notes anyway. what's the difference what style it is. for the most part, Live works exactly the same no matter what style of music you are making. it's not like it has different sets of tools for each genre. i don't get it.

True.

LaQ · Post by **LaQ** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:23 am

yeh but the point is: live's demos suggest live was bound to flat sounding, loop based, lame, semi-electronic music.
which is not the case.

and when you start using live as they seem to suggest you should use it (dragging loops from the sample cd and tweaking them with live's on board plugs) you soon end up sounding exactly like that...

maybe they should rather shuffle through various styles in the demo, (including something with real vocals!)...

tjwett not logged in · Post by **tjwett not logged in** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:14 am

all they are showing you is how to use the program, the source material is up to you. no one is forcing you to drag anything from a sample cd. ever buy a tutorial book for something like Photoshop or similar? they have you fucking with pictures of ducks and boats and adding cheezy words with wack fonts. that doesn't lead me to believe that's all Photoshop is capable of. they are just trying to provide an assortment of usable sounds to demonstrate how it works. would it make a difference if the demo was a jungle track, or a house track, or any other type? it's just a little primer. if you want to really learn to use the program crack open the manual or just start using it. no demo in the world will replace hands on learning.

LaQ · Post by **LaQ** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:16 am

but the problem with live is: as a new user (and we're talking about them, i guess) you don't really know what its capable of. i've been using live for about 2 months now and i just really "discovered" the arrangement view with its various capabilities a week ago or so.
i didn't really know live was able to record "normally". everything was bound to the loop system of the session view, i thought - and i used it that way (being quite disappointed after a while, cause there's some natural boundaries to a system like that..)

Eza · Post by **Eza** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:28 am

tjwett not logged in wrote:all they are showing you is how to use the program, the source material is up to you. no one is forcing you to drag anything from a sample cd. ever buy a tutorial book for something like Photoshop or similar? they have you fucking with pictures of ducks and boats and adding cheezy words with wack fonts. that doesn't lead me to believe that's all Photoshop is capable of. they are just trying to provide an assortment of usable sounds to demonstrate how it works. would it make a difference if the demo was a jungle track, or a house track, or any other type? it's just a little primer. if you want to really learn to use the program crack open the manual or just start using it. no demo in the world will replace hands on learning.

i think it would make a difference if it was a house track and/or a jungle track. and many other styles as well. it can't be difficult to implement.

the majority of users of live 4 will be dance orientated musos. loops and all. so why have such a lame demo song? there is absolutely no energy to it and you can't exactly jam with it.

and who wants to 'crack open a manual' when the demo is meant to be guiding you through all the new ideas ableton have come up with.

and that's my point. as a user of cubase for 15 years it is very difficult to get your head round Live. i think that's what you misunderstand. because you can get on with it you are blind to those that can't.

i've had this damn demo a while now and still can't quite understand the whole process and not for want of trying. but i'm sick to death of the song, it certainly doesn't inspire to be creative like they state.

i think a better selection of more 'current' sounds and loops would benefit sales immensely. and help us poor sods that just don't get it yet not have to endure that lame ass song any more and keep reverting back to square one because it can't be saved!

once i feel it can do what i hope it can, then i'll reach for my credit card. for the moment though, the ease of cubase in comparison (for me of course) keeps me from doing that.

montrealbreaks · Post by **montrealbreaks** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:46 am

Eza wrote:
i think it would make a difference if it was a house track and/or a jungle track. and many other styles as well. it can't be difficult to implement.

the majority of users of live 4 will be dance orientated musos. loops and all. so why have such a lame demo song? there is absolutely no energy to it and you can't exactly jam with it.

Ableton already has a decent foothold in the loop oriented dance / electronic market. If they want to expand, they would be wise to appeal to the older, more "serious" musicians. While I don't really feel the demo of Live 4.01 is spectacular, I can also say it's inclusion was probably their best course of action.

As far as having multiple demos, I just downloaded my copy of Live 4.01, because the CD will take some time to get here. Multiple demos, with multiple AIFF files or WAV files, takes up memory and therefore bandwidth. I have a slow internet connection, as do many others who download the demo - So I don't see multiple tutorial / demo songs as much of an option for Ableton if they don't want to alienate their slow internet customers.

tjwett not logged in · Post by **tjwett not logged in** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:28 pm

i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. before Live i used Logic exclusively for both work and play for about 4 years. even after all that time i never fully understood what the hell was going on with some aspects of the program. i bought Live version 1 when it was released and right out of the box was "getting it". i felt like i know the program inside and out after about a week.

and as for the Live 4 demo song, it isn't meant to be a replacement for the manual. it's just a little "quick start" guide to show you some of the key features. no one said you have to spend hours listening to the demo song over and over. just open a new project (File>New) and start fucking around. and for god's sake, read the manual. it's not your typical gear manual. it's well-written, wel laid out, and easy on the eyes.

hiveminded · Post by **hiveminded** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:05 am

the demo for Tracktion was so amazing that i bought the program. of course it helps that it was 80$ or something like that

but a great sounding demo would be a tastier hook for potential new users than a dull-sounding one, regardless of what style it is.

i agree with montrealbreaks in that ableton did a good thing in trying to diversify their audience by putting old[er]-school rock- and jazz-like sounds and parts with the 4.0.1 song.

having said that, i was shocked by the demo loops so much that i decided to remix and mangle them untill i got something that satified me

. and as a side effect i learned some of the new features

.

hiveminded