my rant about timbaland

Nod · Post by **Nod** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:52 pm

Rogue Scrunt wrote:he is not all that. a lot of his sound is from his engineer Jimmy Douglas. if you have the time, watch the videos, and you will learn a lot about quality production

Thanks for that Rogue....

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:58 pm

bullshit.

you are the one who said he isnt an electronic musician if i can't produce a video clip.

i said : "wrong, electronic music does not have to be real time"

you said, "no, the pioneers were virtuoso performers real time"

I said, "wrong, the pioneers could NOT be real time"

you have avoided admiting that the real time aspect does not make or break someones talent as an electronic musician, therefore your argument on that aspect has FAILED. give up. i'm not trying to obfuscate the isse, you are.

What statements do you want me to research? I have no fucking idea what you are talking about.

i'm done wasting my time on you, anyone with half a brain can see that timbabland is a pretty talented cat, even if they don't like him, his music, or the fact he ripped off some samples, just like everybody else in hip hop and RnB does.

as far as what the engineer does, he only tracks the vocals and does the mix. he does not claim to make the beats. So what?

Can anybody please back me the fuck up here? I'm so tired of being out here fighting off complete fucking idiots.

.lm.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:04 pm

Nod wrote: I didn't make farcical claims about someone I don't know, and had never seen working, did I?

That is EXACTLY what you are doing.

.lm.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:18 pm

anyway, i'm really done now. As i suspected you just spewed a huge load of complete horseshit and i should have just left it with the insult you so richly deserved.

so whatever.

i hope badgers shred your genitals and maggots infest the wounds.

.lm.

steve-o · Post by **steve-o** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:55 pm

muthafunka wrote:You're dealing with this.

Hilarious!!!

popslut · Post by **popslut** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:59 pm

leisuremuffin wrote: Can anybody please back me the fuck up here? I'm so tired of being out here fighting off complete fucking idiots.

I think what you're experiencing is the "Nobody Else Gives A Rat's Cock" syndrome. I personally lost interest about 4 petulant exchanges ago.

Actually, I don't think either of you come out of this looking good, but, on balance, I'd say Nod loses, simply for having the gall to offer up those dismal hairy also-rans "Tangerine Dream" as exemplars of musical virtuosity.

The silly daft cunt.

dcease · Post by **dcease** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:01 pm

leisuremuffin wrote:Can anybody please back me the fuck up here? I'm so tired of being out here fighting off complete fucking idiots.

.lm.

i'd love to back you up, but i stopped paying attention to the argument a while a go... i just come for the insults=)

now... timbaland is hot. has been for a while, good for him. MAJOR influence in r/b;hiphop;rap which/whatever. sampling is cool, just give the original artist their slice... he does his thing, kinda lame in my opinion, but i'm an ass. i view timbo like the good doctor... is dre a for real artist, or even rapper for that matter, considering he hardly writes anything he spits, and a good portion of his songs feature sampling? i don't care, all i care about is the end product.

and people who think making good beats/sampling is easy, obviously never tried before live came around. storing samples on 5 floppies, just for a full key layout, finding suitable loop points, etc. etc. etc. sure, a lot of people use easier tools now, but people who never step sequenced an entire song on a screen smaller than an ipod's have no idea of the headache this was. it is an art, and you don't have to like or agree with it. arguing who is/is not an artist is lame. if it makes you happy, fuck it, and roll with it. shake them haters off.

unless you are talking about winohouse=)

popslut · Post by **popslut** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:10 pm

dcease wrote:arguing who is/is not an artist is lame.

Most apposite. I concur.

TekMonki · Post by **TekMonki** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:12 pm

Mad props to the one like Timbaland. I must admit to being more into his earlier work, but even to this day that loping beat in "give it to me", he owns. Respect for him wanting to branch out into producing other artists than just hip hop. We should all hope to be so prolific and talented.

Nod · Post by **Nod** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:57 pm

leisuremuffin wrote:you are the one who said he isnt an electronic musician if i can't produce a video clip.

I merely asked you to demonstrate your claim, I've even given you options beyond video, that he was 'one of the greatest electronic musicians of his time'. Nothing more.

i said : "wrong, electronic music does not have to be real time", you said, "no, the pioneers were virtuoso performers real time" I said, "wrong, the pioneers could NOT be real time"

And you then promptly gave examples of real time performers - with the obvious defensive caveat that they didn't somehow count against your argument. Now who's not giving respect where it's due?

you have avoided admiting that the real time aspect does not make or break someones talent as an electronic musician, therefore your argument on that aspect has FAILED. give up. i'm not trying to obfuscate the isse, you are.

That wasn't even the question (it was even in a different thread iirc) so that's one you're having, and can continue having, all by yourself.

What statements do you want me to research? I have no fucking idea what you are talking about.

Go research the people who work and have worked for him and their views - something clearly isn't as it seems. Pretty obvious really.

i'm done wasting my time on you, anyone with half a brain can see that timbabland is a pretty talented cat, even if they don't like him, his music, or the fact he ripped off some samples, just like everybody else in hip hop and RnB does.

But, wait a minute, you said this 'talented cat' had saved us all from the evil, nasty hip hoppers and their sampling ways. So, with all due respect, you've been blowing bubbles out of your ass haven't you?

as far as what the engineer does, he only tracks the vocals and does the mix. he does not claim to make the beats. So what?

Oh do they now? Obviously you haven't worked with real engineers very much. Yes, believe it not, sometimes they do, or contribute, to jobs they aren't attributed for. You know - arrangement, format, programming, production, mix techniques (buy/borrow/steal yourself a Sound On Sound this month and you can actually read about some of this), effect processing, editing. There's a difference. You seriously don't think that one, single handedly apparently, glorious individual is responsible for pages of credit lists do you?

Can anybody please back me the fuck up here? I'm so tired of being out here fighting off complete fucking idiots.

You wouldn't even be requiring anyone to 'back you the fuck up' if you'd actually read, discuss things reasonably and spare the poxy insults. So, do as you said, and give it some peace, I'll do the same....it's more than fucking welcome since neither of us have the option of a killfilter. Sound reasonable?

Nod · Post by **Nod** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:01 am

popslut wrote: I think what you're experiencing is the "Nobody Else Gives A Rat's Cock" syndrome. I personally lost interest about 4 petulant exchanges ago. Actually, I don't think either of you come out of this looking good, but, on balance, I'd say Nod loses, simply for having the gall to offer up those dismal hairy also-rans "Tangerine Dream" as exemplars of musical virtuosity. The silly daft cunt.

Didn't say I owned, or even enjoyed there work - but, yeah, I'll certainly concede, in retrospect, that I'm a silly cunt for raising the 'dismal hairy also-rans', PMSL, Tangerine Dream

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:22 am

Nod wrote:
leisuremuffin wrote:instrument "chops" are not relevant in all forms of electronic music,
That's true - however good chops on something certainly are an indication, but not the be all & end all, of talent and an understanding and dedication to music, built over a number of years.

do you have any footage of autechre's musical chops? obviously not relevant to that kind of music. programming chops aren't as tangible as instrument chops and you don't have to be a virtuoso on any instrument to produce great electronic music.
Odd then that many of the pioneers, and well known artists, back in the day could actually play their (electronic) equipment in real time mostly to a virtuoso level...what would you say has been lost in the meantime?

fuck it, don't tell me, show me, where's your shit, or any of your friends shit that is that hot?

No one's claimed that I'm "one of the greatest electronic musicians of our time" hence there's no need - so chill out and find me a clip of the cat playing something hot, to make your point, and I'll not say another word about him.

the evidence of his abilities are already in this thread. they are the records he wrote the beats for.

you like jeff mills? Show me a clip of him playing an instrument or working on a production or i will write him off as shit. DJ'ing does not count as "instrument chops" Hmm, no evidence. maybe he didn't make those records!

good luck.

.lm.

thesmallisbeautiful · Post by **thesmallisbeautiful** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:14 am

Muffin, I think you are doing yourself and your point a disservice by repeatedly resorting to name calling, although I do somewhat understand the circumstances.

That being said, I am really struggling to grasp what point Nod thinks he's making.

Muffin posted several examples of tracks that Timbo produced, which are aknowledged generally as innovative in r&b/hip-hop and which anyone who was paying attention knows changed the whole game at the time, not only for r&b/hip-hop but eventually for pop music worldwide. For a lot of us who came of age at this time it was the first time that the music on the radio was interesting enough to pay attention to.

Whether Timbaland can sit down and play the piano like a pro or not has no bearing whatsoever on his ability to create music. This point seems not only completely obvious, but should be especially obvious to a bunch of people on a forum for people who use software to make music.

Muffin claimed that Timbaland is a great electronic artist, and there is no video clip, interview, or song that will "prove" this true or false, it's a matter of taste, which is subjective. You can say "I disagree, I don't think he's very good" but "oh yeah? let's see some proof" makes no sense.

For me personally, the decline in the ability of electronic musicians to "play their instruments in real time mostly to a virtuoso level" may be the single most important factor in why I like electronic music so much more today than "back in the day". Nowadays we are much more concerned with the actual music itself, rather than showy displays of technical virtuosity.

It seems like the discusion has degraded to picking apart minutiae of each other's arguments, but if the real point Nod is trying to make is that you have to be able to play a tradition instrument in order to be a good electronic musician, he's flat out wrong and perhaps deserves some of the vitriol Muffin is spewing at him. If that's not his point than he really needs to learn how to express himself better because he's making precious little sense (to me at least).

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:29 am

Thank you. I thought i might be losing my fucking mind.

anyway, its just that its been rehashed a million times with this guy and this subject.

got tired of it.

mostly kidding with the insults in the middle, but i did mean the first one, and also i really do hope badgers shred his genitals. or not.

.lm.

popslut · Post by **popslut** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:58 am

Nod wrote: Didn't say I owned, or even enjoyed there work - but, yeah, I'll certainly concede, in retrospect, that I'm a silly cunt for raising the 'dismal hairy also-rans', PMSL, Tangerine Dream

Also Nod, the danger of offering up a bunch of hoary old white blokes from last century as a way of refuting the talent of a contemporary black artist is that some people might be drawn to the conclusion that you don't like darkies.

Not that I'm suggesting that for a moment of course.