Try this simple test:
Set Tempo to 120bpm - just to make timings easy to read.
Setup a sound on a hardware synth: select an init type patch - ie a hard on, hard off beep type sound so you can easily see in a resulting sample the start and end of the sound. make sure you cant hear sound from the synth directly via an external mixer, ie so you cn only hear it through ableton live.
Create 4 tracks:
Track 1. An audio resample track - set it monitor off, volume to zero so it cant interfere with what you hearing. Set its audio input to "Resample".
Track 2. A Midi track - set its MIDI OUT to to whatever port and channel you have your hard synth on.
Track 3. Create an Audio track, set its monitor mode to IN, set its audio input to whatever audio input the sounds from your hardware synth comes in on.
Track 4. Create a Midi track. Drop an external instrument into it, configure the instrument to MIDI out as per track 2 above, audio in as per track 3 above.
Make sure all latency compensation options are on zero, in the tracks, in the external instrument and in the midi clock send/receive in preferences for the midi port.
Now make a 1 bar midi clip with a 16th duration note on every beat - C5 should be a good note as thats not far off 1Khz - stick that clip in track 2.
Make another 1 bar clip like the above, with the note dropped by a couple of octaves - ie C3 - stick that on track 4.
For simplicity - stick them both in the same scene.
OK, so logically playing both of these clips should result in two notes being played simultaneously with no differences in timing etc.
Wrong!!
Play them - its a complete mess.
Now to try and untangle it a bit. Set the audio on track 4 to zero: you can still hear two distict notes way way out of sync, so we now know that the MIDI from each track is reaching the synth at very different times - Bug #1.
Now set the audio volume on tracks 3 and 4 back to 0dB, and now stop one of the MIDI clips.
Now you can distinctly hear an each - I assume the amount of echo is some multi-ple of your audio interface latency? So now we know that the audio latency is different between the two tracks - Bug #2.
For Bug #3 - you need a synth with an arp or sequencer - its seems you need to set a rediculous high advance on the midi clock out to get an arp on an external synth in sync when using the external instrument plugin -120ms, compared to 6ms instrument latency, -17ms trrack advance if I dont use the external instrument plugin.
BTW - the purpose of setting all the latencies to zero in the above is to take away all the nomral setup options for latency and just focus on these now completely incomatible modes of use of external gear.
Most bizarrely, when trying to get my radias in sync, I found the following:
For playing notes, I needed the instrument latency set to 6ms. In order to get a drum loop in sync with ableton's click, I had to set the clock out from live to -120ms!!!. Then it still seemed to be audiabley drifting in and ot of sync.
The bottom line here seems to be that external instruments are severly broken still - this applies to 7.0.1 and 7.0.2.
Can someone else please try this - perhaps some more test and patterns of behaviour might tie this down - maybe something is screwed here?
Also I have just gone through all 30 or so midi port pairs setting them all the MME rather than direct music - what a complete pain to have to do that.
Illogical MIDI / external instrument timing
Illogical MIDI / external instrument timing
Nothing to see here - move along!
I'm having the same issue
i use an external virus c with m-audio fast tro pro and i'm getting all sorts of weird stuff going on with the MIDI playback
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OriginalSpaceMan
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:54 am
- Contact:
The reason you hear two distinct sounds, instead of a perfect sync is because MIDI out and Audio IN on two tracks does not automatically adjust for latency where as "External Instrument" automatically adjust for every aspect of latency. This is why it is the bomb.
The Original Spaceman
http://www.myspace.com/originalspaceman
http://www.myspace.com/originalspaceman
Really? OK, so lets see what it can know about the world around it when its latency it set to zero...
Audio IN latency - perhaps - it can take a rough guess based upon driver latency.
MIDI out latency? Nope - not a chance in hell.
Automatically set the clock out latency adjustment for that midi port? Havnt a clue - nothign else does that, so I doubt it, either way - something is badly wrong there.
Conclusion - you must be taking the piss
And anyway - its normally about 6 or so ms out for me - that suggests to me that if its auto-compensating, then its only compensating for the reported audio in latency (fair enough), and the remainder is the driver error and midi out latency combined - that kind of makes sense.
but the -120ms that has to be applied to the midi clock out on the midi port to get a beat in sync with Live is badly broken...
Audio IN latency - perhaps - it can take a rough guess based upon driver latency.
MIDI out latency? Nope - not a chance in hell.
Automatically set the clock out latency adjustment for that midi port? Havnt a clue - nothign else does that, so I doubt it, either way - something is badly wrong there.
Conclusion - you must be taking the piss
And anyway - its normally about 6 or so ms out for me - that suggests to me that if its auto-compensating, then its only compensating for the reported audio in latency (fair enough), and the remainder is the driver error and midi out latency combined - that kind of makes sense.
but the -120ms that has to be applied to the midi clock out on the midi port to get a beat in sync with Live is badly broken...
Nothing to see here - move along!
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filterstein
- Posts: 170
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:14 pm
OriginalSpaceMan is right.
You're doing something that it's not designed for.
If you enable delay compensation and have setup latency compensation correctly (see the tutorial) and your midi tracks are still running out of sync, only then something is wrong with Live. External instruments are designed to work with latency compensation, without it they are useless.
You're doing something that it's not designed for.
If you enable delay compensation and have setup latency compensation correctly (see the tutorial) and your midi tracks are still running out of sync, only then something is wrong with Live. External instruments are designed to work with latency compensation, without it they are useless.
well I have been thru all this myself with the radias!!!!!Khazul wrote: Most bizarrely, when trying to get my radias in sync, I found the following:
For playing notes, I needed the instrument latency set to 6ms. In order to get a drum loop in sync with ableton's click, I had to set the clock out from live to -120ms!!!. Then it still seemed to be audiabley drifting in and ot of sync.
BUT DO NOT FORGET THAT:
the radias syncs its arp to midi clock BUT ANYWHERE; regardless of where the beat is.
so each starting of the arp will result in a different offset!!!
...
so start it by firing a clip (with will start bar or beat interval) and it will be in sync.
then you will be able to sync it....
I found -12 ms clock worked for me, -6 ms for a midi track going to the radias but that was before i tried external instrument.
anyway I found that I can have my radias well synced midi-wise.
but all that does not make audio record on the beat, and anyway that depends if you are monitoring the track or not (!!!), so I have to record one bar in advance and one bar late and adjust manually in the sample view to be really on the beat. That makes a crummy workflow.
3 words...WaveRider wrote:3dot... wrote:switched to MME cuz Directmusic was giving me spikes...
Sync wise
BCRoutA - > roland R5 -33.5 ms
Multiface Midi - > ds evolver -55 ms
...so how do you like your evolver? I am thinking about one...
GO FOR IT !
angry blue box...
if you have the $$... get the MEK...
