Mac to PC switch advice

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
drumroll57
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 12:13 pm

Mac and PC all over again

Post by drumroll57 » Sat Sep 11, 2004 11:29 am

FaX-01 wrote:The G4 is just old technology being pushed to it's limits.
Superb build quality though and alot of good extra features like Firwire 400/800 ,decent built in sound handling etc etc etc ....
After using a G4 for almost 2 years on stage week in and week out...

NOT ONE SINGLE CRASH. (yanking out the power cord on the audio interface doesn't count!)

Live does have siginificant limitations on a G4 compared to my Dothan 1.7 GHz Dell, but I think that the reliability factor is a significant plus in the Mac's favor.

One thing to remember is you can really optimize the beast with a faster internal drive!!

D.
stay groovy!

smutek
Posts: 4489
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2003 3:30 pm
Location: Baltimore,United States

Re: Mac to PC switch advice

Post by smutek » Sat Sep 11, 2004 11:48 am

AdamJay wrote:
MarkH wrote: Apple's laptops range in price from $1099 to $2799, if you love OSX and you love Live - you are screwed!
No, you are. Or must have been.

I'm not bashing you but I don't understand why people say stuff like this. I use live, reason, and traktor in addition to a host of design apps. and I have no problems at all with my computer.

I think what you should have said was that you love OSX and you love live but you were screwed.

Know what I mean? Don't be so general.

Peace :D

polyslax
Posts: 2402
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 11:22 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Mac to PC switch advice

Post by polyslax » Sat Sep 11, 2004 2:26 pm

Let's at least have an iMac test before we write it off, non?

I think there are loads of people "getting by" with G4 powerbooks in a live setting. If the G5 iMac proves to be a viable portable for gigging, the performance is bound to be miles ahead of the current powerbooks. And then, there will be G5 powerbooks at some point next year. You may not be able to run 150 reverbs at once but, I don't see that as being a major hindrance... these machines will be very capable compared with what Mac powerbook/ibook users are running today.

AdamJay wrote:
Another thing to mention - if the G5 optimization is just multi-threading, its not gonna help all those Single CPU G5 iMac owners thinking their machines are the saviors for Live on the mac end. This goes for the future of the Powerbook as well (G5).

It upsets me alot. I sold my G4 867mhz 12" Powerbook for $1000. With that same $1000 I bought an HP Laptop that is literally 3.5 times more effecient with Ableton Live. I Loved and still do Love OSX, but Live has been my main performance application for nearly 2 years, and now since Live 4 its all i use in the studio and on stage. The ONLY reason i switched was for performance, i couldn't afford to buy a faster powerbook, $1000 was my budget and i did what i had to do. I really wish i didn't have to. OSX is a beautiful operating environment, but its sad that Mac users end up paying a premium to use it with Ableton Live.

FaX-01
Posts: 1483
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:58 am

Post by FaX-01 » Sat Sep 11, 2004 2:53 pm

I would love it if Mac released OSX for the P4 and AMD processors though 8O 8O 8O drooooools at the thought :D.
My aren't the wings of butterflies beautiful and do they not make wonderful perturbations.....

futureproof
Posts: 339
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:21 am
Location: tOKYO

Post by futureproof » Sat Sep 11, 2004 8:01 pm

FaX-01 wrote:I would love it if Mac released OSX for the P4 and AMD processors though 8O 8O 8O drooooools at the thought :D.
Personally, I wouldn't be interested at all.

I just turn on my comp and double click the Live icon on my desktop then make music.
Isn't that what you are doing also? I keep hearing this I hate windoze, its all about OSX kinda thing. It's the same thing on OSX, turn on comp, open apps.. Just out of curiosity, what are you guys doing with OSX that makes it so great to you? Unix stuff?

The only person in this thread that gave a clear answer is machinesworking because he uses Logic, an apple only app, and some other apple only plugs and apps. Thats a real reason in my book. Perhaps some of you like the look of mac more? I agree with you! macs look better by a longshot.



Maybe I just never gave OSX a chance. As a reverse switcher I have negative feelings towards OSX. For me it just meant have a slower OS, all my apps and plugs got messed up.
I used to use Digital Performer in the version 2 and 3 days and loved it, then OSX and DP4 hit and my performance just SPIRALED DOWN. All the while Im thinking "I PAID for this?????"

That was it for me[/b]
"THE biggest differences between Live 3 & 4 are the things that Live 4 have that are missing in Live 3"

-some dude on KVR.

Machinesworking
Posts: 11434
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Post by Machinesworking » Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:19 am

futureproof wrote:Maybe I just never gave OSX a chance. As a reverse switcher I have negative feelings towards OSX. For me it just meant have a slower OS, all my apps and plugs got messed up.
I used to use Digital Performer in the version 2 and 3 days and loved it, then OSX and DP4 hit and my performance just SPIRALED DOWN. All the while Im thinking "I PAID for this?????"
That was it for me[/b]
MOTU made me switch to Logic. At the time I had a choice of either a PC or mac laptop, and I chose a powerbook so as not to lose Pluggo. DP was supposed to be able to transfer samples from your sampler edit them, then transfer them back. I bought an EMU E6400 Ultra for $1800, and could NOT for the life of me get DP to transfer them back to the sampler. After months on the phone with MOTU tech they told me that sccsi was dead technology, and the Ultra line was NOT supported. DP4 still has sampler dumps listed as a feature, with no mention of them discontinuing support for it. If you loop an audio file, when it hit the next file on that track it would stop playing, never did see that fixed before I gave up and switched.

Personally I think you blamed the wrong party, it wasn't that OSX is badly coded, it's more like MOTU move like slugs fixing bugs and performance issues in DP. Granted it was a major jump from OS 9 to OSX, but you would think they would at least beat Steinberg to the punch? :roll: Have to admit that DP is hands down the best looking DAW out there though, and it does offer some really straightforward UI ideas.

OSX is a better system I think, browsing choices, security, basic look, and ability to tailor it to your workflow. PCs have better chips, but powerbooks are a lot more reliable, the testing on them before they leave for market is insane.

It really is all about personal choice though.

futureproof
Posts: 339
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:21 am
Location: tOKYO

Post by futureproof » Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:14 am

Machinesworking wrote: Have to admit that DP is hands down the best looking DAW out there though, and it does offer some really straightforward UI ideas.
True. DP does have quite a few things goin for it and it is a beauty.

I loved versions 2 and 3.
"THE biggest differences between Live 3 & 4 are the things that Live 4 have that are missing in Live 3"

-some dude on KVR.

Machinesworking
Posts: 11434
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Post by Machinesworking » Sun Sep 12, 2004 3:40 am

(highjack # 3877685894 )

I will upgrade from 2.72 if, and when, I hear that they've sorted out dual cpu use, get plug in delay compensation, and get some features that Logic does not have. Honestly if they could get even half the cpu use that Logic has, then it would be a great app.
I like Logic a lot, but I have a fondness for DP, I first used it in 87 for christs sake. Apparently there are only 30 employees at MOTU, that includes the hardware staff too!! 8O So even though I think MOTU's boss has obviously got his priorities skewed, and DP 4 is basically hardly different than 3, except that it's a slug, :roll: I respect them for being a DAW underdog in a ruthless business.

xuoham
Posts: 276
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:40 am
Location: okinawa japan / paris france
Contact:

Post by xuoham » Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:56 pm

Thank you all for the advice! Sorry for answering late... Futureproof, yeah i feel reassured by what you say, and got a big smile at your "I thought that when I opened Live Bill Gates face would be plastered on the pan and efx sends!!". It's so much what i was feeling... And MarkH, yes, i should have been more precise: i was meaning MY pismo, WITH LIVE (man, you're so touchy!). I'm no platform basher, the only fight there is is the one for better music, but it's time for me to get a new laptop, and it won't be a powerbook, because though a couple of tracks is generally sufficient to go straight to the matter, Live has so many different creative options for experimenting that it's definitely a plus to have as large a headroom as possible in terms of cpu hunger. Not to mention the relative instability i got above 60% of cpu usage. I want to get with Live the feeling i have wtih Reason: you may spent most of the time using a mere 30% of cpu power, but you know it won't be choking whatever your creative drive tells you to do, live or studio, even if it's an extreme setting. When i see the results of the tests made with Live (thank you Adam Jay!), i don't hesitate (G4 1,5Ghz=43, Pentium M 1,7Ghz=25, period!). Bye bye mac OS, too bad, but after all shall i miss you so much? Like Futureproof, "I just turn on my comp and double click the Live icon on my desktop then make music". Too bad for Apple if its laptops are slower WITH LIVE and more expensive. And i really don't give a shit about how my lappie looks, more music, less cosmetics! Anyway, sorry for the redundance: Adam Jay said it all ("The ONLY reason i switched was for performance, i couldn't afford to buy a faster powerbook..."). Is this mac bashing? Or allegiance to straight facts? Anyway, i thought this thread would be an innocent and geeky advice quest for worryless Windows, and again like almost any "switch" story, it went back on the endless pc/mac debate. The fate of threads is sometimes funnny... After all, let's have what we wanna have and let's be happy with it!

Thank you for your time.

Post Reply