Zebra2 questions of synthetic & Zen nature

Pasha · Post by **Pasha** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:26 pm

Just testing...
Which of the two is closer to a real FM sinthesys?
I'm trying Zebra2 but I'm not getting close to the Operator sounds when using FMO.
It's probably me... Moving from Operator to Zebra2 with Operator in mind might be kinda hard...

Question for the expert friends on the board:

I'm more a preset guy than a sound designer, I have to admit it. I rarely create a sound from scratch. I prefer to tweak presets. I'm left with these option:

1. Stay with my Hardware (JV1010) that is a 'best of Roland synths' I got in 2001 (but it's MIDI and I always need to render it to audio - time consuming)
2. Exchange my JV1010 with Absynth 4 (50 Euros to add)
3. Get Zebra2 for 162 Euros and try to sell (or retain) JV1010
4. Get Kore Player Best of Absynth content for 49 Euros

I'm looking for Pads, Synths sounds, Ambient and Leads.
What would you do in my place?

- Best
- Pasha

djfm · Post by **djfm** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:04 pm

I know this isnt much help to you. but i have fm8 for sale if your interested

baseinstinct · Post by **baseinstinct** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:56 pm

zebra2 vs operator?

I didn't have a slightest idea operator was half as good.

Got to give it a try one day.

liveISlife · Post by **liveISlife** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:35 am

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, id say get zebra 2 out of all those options(and keep the hardware synth thingy) i mean absynth is cool and all but i would get zebra 2 first ;D as far as fm goes on zebra 2 id even k. i dont think i do it right =D but w/e i get some nasty sounds on that baby! i like the filters toooo!

Mr Man · Post by **Mr Man** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:35 am

Yup - get zebra2

also, if you take a photo of your old hardware synth and a print out from u-he's page you get $50 off - its called dino crossgrade or something, read about it on his site!

Also check out the Transmition preset pack - its $30 or something but really good

Pasha · Post by **Pasha** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:01 am

Little Bump, EFA (Eager for Answers)

Frederik654 · Post by **Frederik654** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:01 am

Get the Zebra and try the crossgrade as Mr Man mentioned ..

It's all you ever need, free upgrades, nice sound packs, easy GUI, ..

Pasha · Post by **Pasha** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:18 am

liveISlife wrote:hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, id say get zebra 2 out of all those options(and keep the hardware synth thingy) i mean absynth is cool and all but i would get zebra 2 first ;D as far as fm goes on zebra 2 id even k. i dont think i do it right =D but w/e i get some nasty sounds on that baby! i like the filters toooo!

Thanks for reply. I'd like more on your suggestion of keeping the hardware anyway.

- Best
- Pasha

baseinstinct · Post by **baseinstinct** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:06 pm

Absynth? To my ears it's always sounded sad.

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:41 pm

Operator is better compared to FM8 than Zebra. Zebra is more strongly suited to subtractive synthesis than FM, but it is extremely versatile and a great synth. It is also quite good on CPU usage for such a powerful synth.

You would actually probably like FM8 if you're a preset tweaker rather than a sound designer, it has much stronger stock presets than Operator and it has a free trial download (which you can play with for 30 minutes, record and render to audio or freeze tracks) and if you save your live set and close and reopen you get another 30 minute session (of course, you should BUY the product if you really do like it).

Although Operator is every inch as capable a synth and if you look at some of Puremagnetik and Covert Operators offerings you will appreciate Operator a lot more.

As for Absynth, it does amazing pads and ambiences. That is the major strength in that synth, bass and lead sounds are less convincing.

You could also consider Reaktor - this has gazillions of user downloadable presets as well as being something that is very programmable should you expand into that area of synthesis.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:52 pm

Don't at all understand why anybody would knock Absynth??? My suggestion is to get Absynth, and Zebra, keep the Roland, and you basically have all the major basses covered.
IMO all three have strong points for bass, and Absynth is king for pads. Zebra is more of a lead instruement, it can do pads but the delay isn't the strong point in Zebra. Zebra is all about insanely great oscillators! I mean really good stuff. the two synths I use them most often are Zebra and Absynth along with a hardware moog.

I'm of the mind that analog can be only partially replicated in digital form, so keep the Roland, unless you do not program with it at all, then sell it to me and buy an analog sampler pack.

Pasha · Post by **Pasha** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:33 am

leedsquietman wrote:Operator is better compared to FM8 than Zebra. Zebra is more strongly suited to subtractive synthesis than FM, but it is extremely versatile and a great synth. It is also quite good on CPU usage for such a powerful synth.

You would actually probably like FM8 if you're a preset tweaker rather than a sound designer, it has much stronger stock presets than Operator and it has a free trial download (which you can play with for 30 minutes, record and render to audio or freeze tracks) and if you save your live set and close and reopen you get another 30 minute session (of course, you should BUY the product if you really do like it).

Although Operator is every inch as capable a synth and if you look at some of Puremagnetik and Covert Operators offerings you will appreciate Operator a lot more.

As for Absynth, it does amazing pads and ambiences. That is the major strength in that synth, bass and lead sounds are less convincing.

You could also consider Reaktor - this has gazillions of user downloadable presets as well as being something that is very programmable should you expand into that area of synthesis.

Good point, thank you. I know Operator well enough to get what I need 80% of the times and I consider it a real good complement to Live. It's easy and straight forward I own Juice and a Free Library from Puremagnetik. I bought the boxed suite because of the upgrade price even if I really only needed Live, Electric,Session Drums & EIC. The sum of all these goes beyond the upgrade price I paid... Analog it's almost getting dust. I use some preset sometimes, mainly pad for background layer. I'm in love with my Roland JV1010 but it disrupts the work flow. Maybe I'm only lazy but if I write 3 tracks for a song using this module I have to render it to audio before mixing because it has only stereo outputs. If the song is 3 minutes long this makes 9 minutes rendering before even considering mixing. Imagine if I'd use it more. However the sound it makes is en pair or superior to any VST. The idea of keeping it despite the offer from the Music Store is gaining momentum... I'll try Reaktor Demo. I considered it too much difficult for me, but it's the Library that I'm buying not the synthesis.
That's why the Kore Player idea got me at some point. They exposed only the needed parameters to change the sound. How do you compare NI correctness and support to Ableton's? The forum is full of complaints against NI...

- Best
- Pasha

Pasha · Post by **Pasha** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:46 am

Machinesworking wrote:Don't at all understand why anybody would knock Absynth??? My suggestion is to get Absynth, and Zebra, keep the Roland, and you basically have all the major basses covered.
IMO all three have strong points for bass, and Absynth is king for pads. Zebra is more of a lead instruement, it can do pads but the delay isn't the strong point in Zebra. Zebra is all about insanely great oscillators! I mean really good stuff. the two synths I use them most often are Zebra and Absynth along with a hardware moog.

I'm of the mind that analog can be only partially replicated in digital form, so keep the Roland, unless you do not program with it at all, then sell it to me and buy an analog sampler pack.

The issue with the Roland is that it was distributed with eMagic Sounddiver OEM. This never made it into UB. It has been knocked out from Apple after the acquisition. It runs well only in Win2k. That's why I have a VmWare Fusion VM with Win2k (it also runs BCFREDIT and BC Manager very well for my BCF2000...). I mainly use it for it's huge library. Yesterday I made a sonic comparison between almost similar sounds between Zebra Demo Analog, Roland and Absynth Demo. Hardware is hardware. So I'm 90% sure I'll keep the Roland. What I need now it's a paddish ambient arping synth with a good library. I'll test again if Zebra or Absynth. U-He seems to have the fairest licencing on the market with its buy once unlock many-free upgrades strategy. I don't want to get caught into costly upgrades, Ableton is more than enough. I went the Boxed Suite route because I wanted an integrated environment with no compatibility problems ( I had hell with Sampletank) but Analog does only the basics and I want some more.
You state that:

Machinesworking wrote: it can do pads but the delay isn't the strong point in Zebra

Can you be more specific? I listened to Zebra and found good Pad and ambients there even if no sampling there like Absynth. Do you own both?

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:23 am

Pasha wrote:The issue with the Roland is that it was distributed with eMagic Sounddiver OEM. This never made it into UB. It has been knocked out from Apple after the acquisition. It runs well only in Win2k. That's why I have a VmWare Fusion VM with Win2k (it also runs BCFREDIT and BC Manager very well for my BCF2000...). I mainly use it for it's huge library. Yesterday I made a sonic comparison between almost similar sounds between Zebra Demo Analog, Roland and Absynth Demo. Hardware is hardware. So I'm 90% sure I'll keep the Roland. What I need now it's a paddish ambient arping synth with a good library. I'll test again if Zebra or Absynth. U-He seems to have the fairest licencing on the market with its buy once unlock many-free upgrades strategy. I don't want to get caught into costly upgrades, Ableton is more than enough. I went the Boxed Suite route because I wanted an integrated environment with no compatibility problems ( I had hell with Sampletank) but Analog does only the basics and I want some more.
You state that:
Machinesworking wrote: it can do pads but the delay isn't the strong point in Zebra
Can you be more specific? I listened to Zebra and found good Pad and ambients there even if no sampling there like Absynth. Do you own both?

I'm assuming you don't own Logic? Soundiver public beta works just fine on OSX, I haven't tried it on the intel macbook here, but it might be possible to emulate it.....

Like i said I own both, and both are the first things I go to 80% of the time. There's a distinct sonic difference in the oscillators and the way FM is used, the filtering, and the delays between Absynth and Zebra. Zebra is a much better buy, and much more capable of emulating analog, the filters are arguably better, but Absynths strong point is evolving pads, no real contender there, multiple break point envelopes, and the delays are complex as hell.
That said Zebra has a killer arp, costs half as much, and is capable of a lot more "organic" sounding patches, Absynth is cold IMO, and great for that sound, but not analog at all.

Get Zebra, my feelings are strong about both of them, but Zebra is more what you're looking for if you want pads, and a good arp.

Pasha · Post by **Pasha** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:11 am

Machinesworking wrote:
Pasha wrote:The issue with the Roland is that it was distributed with eMagic Sounddiver OEM. This never made it into UB. It has been knocked out from Apple after the acquisition. It runs well only in Win2k. That's why I have a VmWare Fusion VM with Win2k (it also runs BCFREDIT and BC Manager very well for my BCF2000...). I mainly use it for it's huge library. Yesterday I made a sonic comparison between almost similar sounds between Zebra Demo Analog, Roland and Absynth Demo. Hardware is hardware. So I'm 90% sure I'll keep the Roland. What I need now it's a paddish ambient arping synth with a good library. I'll test again if Zebra or Absynth. U-He seems to have the fairest licencing on the market with its buy once unlock many-free upgrades strategy. I don't want to get caught into costly upgrades, Ableton is more than enough. I went the Boxed Suite route because I wanted an integrated environment with no compatibility problems ( I had hell with Sampletank) but Analog does only the basics and I want some more.
You state that:
Machinesworking wrote: it can do pads but the delay isn't the strong point in Zebra
Can you be more specific? I listened to Zebra and found good Pad and ambients there even if no sampling there like Absynth. Do you own both?
I'm assuming you don't own Logic? Soundiver public beta works just fine on OSX, I haven't tried it on the intel macbook here, but it might be possible to emulate it.....

Like i said I own both, and both are the first things I go to 80% of the time. There's a distinct sonic difference in the oscillators and the way FM is used, the filtering, and the delays between Absynth and Zebra. Zebra is a much better buy, and much more capable of emulating analog, the filters are arguably better, but Absynths strong point is evolving pads, no real contender there, multiple break point envelopes, and the delays are complex as hell.
That said Zebra has a killer arp, costs half as much, and is capable of a lot more "organic" sounding patches, Absynth is cold IMO, and great for that sound, but not analog at all.

Get Zebra, my feelings are strong about both of them, but Zebra is more what you're looking for if you want pads, and a good arp.

Thanks again!
I do not own Logic and I've heard that the Beta of Sounddiver is in beta status since 2004... so I fear they do not even make it UB. Moreover I've heard about USB key protection...
From the demo tests I made Absynth sounds very good for evolving stuff and also has sampling capabilities (you can take a wave and use it instead of an oscillator to build your sound) while Zebra2 acts as a wavetable synth but the type of wave is generated not played, am I correct?
Zebra2 gives me a sense of warmness that simply isn't there in Absynth. Zebra2 seems more Rolandesque.... What you think?

Do you have OLDSKOOL or TRANSMISSION patches or only standard ones?

- Best
- Pasha