The time for change has begun... Obama clinches D-Ticket

liveISlife · Post by **liveISlife** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:17 am

djadonis206 wrote:
liveISlife wrote:I may not have read an economy book and I may be uneducated

I hope you're being sarcastic - a tiny bit of knowledge goes along way when it comes to how economies work

economics predicts and explains a lot of what you see. If you really care about what you see I suggest enrolling in an economics class or just reading an intro to economics book

you might like it

Im being serious man. Although I am starting to listen to this audio book called Economics in one lesson which is pretty cool and interesting.

liveISlife · Post by **liveISlife** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:21 am

djadonis206 wrote:
djadonis206 wrote:
liveISlife wrote:I may not have read an economy book and I may be uneducated

I hope you're being sarcastic - a tiny bit of knowledge goes along way when it comes to how economies work

economics predicts and explains a lot of what you see. If you really care about what you see I suggest enrolling in an economics class or just reading an intro to economics book

you might like it
Paul Heyne says in his text book The Economic Way of Thinking:

"I don't know anything about fancy economic theory," the confident amateur begins, "but I do know this ... " and what he says next demonstrates all too often that he is quite right in denying and knowledge of economic theory, but quite wrong in supposing that this preserved him from error.

fyi it's a great class

Well see, I was not supposing that stating I don't know shit about that stuff was going to save me from error. I was more along the lines kinda trying to say "Hey, I'm a fucktard but I'm going to say something."

telepathy51 · Post by **telepathy51** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:51 am

its a groundbreaking historic time for America, we have gotten ourselves our first democratic nominee who is......A SOCIALIST!!!!

I can't lie, i voted for him in our primary. I am so sick of the lesser of 2 evils but he was the clear choice for me considering Hillary is the devil. I hope he does a good job, but him trying to protect us from ourselves by growing government is scary to me. He may not be a socialist but some things about him scare me and none of them have to do with race. These two parties pass the ball back and forth slowly stripping us of our rights. One takes privacy, the other one tells you how to raise your kids... I wish there was a common sense party...

democrats...preaching freedom of speech and crying anytime Don Imus or some jerk off says something stupid, pro-choice and against the death penalty, weird huh?

republicans... sending soldiers to fight in wars overseas and selling out our country to foriegn investors (the dems sell us out too though), don't care much about the environment cause the "rapture" is gonna happen anyway.

sorry, im just ranting and being stupid...but a two party system is one step below a dictatorship in my opinion....but then again, im just one crazy nut.

Sleep Tyght · Post by **Sleep Tyght** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:55 am

nbr0118 wrote:
b0unce wrote:Hillary appeals to working class white fucks.
that's what the televisual news-o-mongs say.
This comment may just encapsulate the general immaturity and irresponsible nature of this forum.

Why is it that any OT political thread always turns into casting white conservative Americans as general racists, bigots, sexists, ignorant assholes....whatever. While comments like these are welcome in a forum like this...try taking your rhetoric into any real world conversation/debate and you'd be hard pressed to hide the hypocrisy in your own statements. Since many of you are concerned with the "facts", try researching national giving levels as a % of GDP...

Now about Obama. I am personally proud that a man like Obama has made it as far as he has...he represents just how far one can go...his presence and genuineness is undeniable. My disagreements with Obama are solely on the issues, and I guess his general outlook on the role of government. I think he only hurts the causes he wishes to enact with his policies.

I won't go into a long discussions of my support for John McCain, but within the context of this discussion (hope and change), I believe he has proven himself over and over again...in that he knows what it takes to change things for the better.......

See I'll be nice about this because you seem especially interested in this race even if you are a bit misguided....

http://www.reason.com/news/show/118937.html

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20080604/ ... istortions

I just think you should check out those two links. Now I am in NO WAY endorsing Obama as the perfect candidate, but I really don't see now any rational person could take issue with Obama's stance on Iraq and diplomacy...

Yet they'll support a candidate who takes a photo op at an Iraqi market in an attempt to show that Iraq is much safer than it was when the war first began. Now maybe his age really is catching up with him, but I'm POSITIVE that he was quite aware of snipers posted up around his ass ready to take out anyone sweating their asses off and looking awkwardly nervous. I'm sure he was quite aware of the gunships in the background providing security. He was literally SURROUNDED BY TROOPS....didn't catch them in every pic though.

But here's one to show you just exactly how safe it is to walk through Iraq's streets.

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/01/mccain-iraq-stroll/

Yup....just like home.

All I'm saying is....don't ask others to do research if you're not willing to do it yourself. On another note, it's funny that women are pretty much stereotyping themselves as being some absent-minded ass irrational mops by stating they'd rather vote for McCain over Obama.

How exactly do you go from voting for the candidate who wants to end the war....to the candidate who once stated that he'd bet money the war in Iraq would end in swift victory?

How exactly do you shift from...."Candidate for the working class voter"...

To the candidate who not only admittedly does not understand the economy but "for worse" plans to force laid off workers to work lower paying jobs instead of receiving the max possible for unemployment benefits. See that's the Republican way. If you're not a leader it's YOUR FAULT. What's funny is McCain will argue against illegal immigration yet voted against raising minimum wage.

Well answer this shit....how can a FAMILY OF 4 survive off let's say Walmart's $9.50 an hour, yet you wanna bitch and try to appease these backwoods-assed voters who don't want the Mexicans coming in to take the jobs that WOULD support a Mexican family back home....

But shit..$9.50 an hour is NOT helping your sons and daughters get into college. Oh and did I mention that McCain voted against raising Pell grants for college tuition????

Come on people...we've already had 8 years of bullshit. You should have been educating yourselves. Shit you could have been halfway through your doctorate's degree in the time Lil' Bush started pulling the same shit that McCain is sure to continue.

nbr0118 · Post by **nbr0118** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:49 am

Sleep Tyght wrote:
nbr0118 wrote:
b0unce wrote:Hillary appeals to working class white fucks.
that's what the televisual news-o-mongs say.
This comment may just encapsulate the general immaturity and irresponsible nature of this forum.

Why is it that any OT political thread always turns into casting white conservative Americans as general racists, bigots, sexists, ignorant assholes....whatever. While comments like these are welcome in a forum like this...try taking your rhetoric into any real world conversation/debate and you'd be hard pressed to hide the hypocrisy in your own statements. Since many of you are concerned with the "facts", try researching national giving levels as a % of GDP...

Now about Obama. I am personally proud that a man like Obama has made it as far as he has...he represents just how far one can go...his presence and genuineness is undeniable. My disagreements with Obama are solely on the issues, and I guess his general outlook on the role of government. I think he only hurts the causes he wishes to enact with his policies.

I won't go into a long discussions of my support for John McCain, but within the context of this discussion (hope and change), I believe he has proven himself over and over again...in that he knows what it takes to change things for the better.......

See I'll be nice about this because you seem especially interested in this race even if you are a bit misguided....

http://www.reason.com/news/show/118937.html

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20080604/ ... istortions

I just think you should check out those two links. Now I am in NO WAY endorsing Obama as the perfect candidate, but I really don't see now any rational person could take issue with Obama's stance on Iraq and diplomacy...

For me, this race will be very interesting to watch. I think Obama's campaign has been very well run and managed...and that shows good leadership on his part...hell he even writes his own speeches...and his fortitude alone would not make me as disappointed as...say...if Hilary was elected. McCain, I think though, has the upper hand because he understands the dynamics of politics (ups and downs)...and to the extent that he understands this...he will be able to work the political system to achieve his goals, which most of I happen to agree with. People will underestimate John McCain during this race...his intelligence and political stamina at his age...and this will only work to his advantage...and he knows it. He understands conflict...and yes war (be it on himself or his opponent)...and all great generals know how to use this knowledge to win battles (personal, political, whatever...).

All I'm saying is it will be interesting to watch...I'll probably take more pleasure in observing the nature of this race than if my candidate actually wins.

liveISlife · Post by **liveISlife** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:08 am

telepathy51 wrote: These two parties pass the ball back and forth slowly stripping us of our rights.

+ 1 to that guey. The entire left right shit is just a false illusion of choice. When rly we have no choice!

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:51 am

liveISlife wrote: Well see, I was not supposing that stating I don't know shit about that stuff was going to save me from error. I was more along the lines kinda trying to say "Hey, I'm a fucktard but I'm going to say something."

That's cool - it's good to say what's on your mind. 9 times out of 10 someone else is thinking just like you

Merely a suggestion on my part

I'm voting for Obama because I like him, worked hard here in Seattle to get the word out and believe he can make some positive changes...not very much can change my mind on that

but I'm far from a democrat - I subscribe to the http://www.jewishworldreview.com/ I read Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams articles on the JWR < - > check those two out actually (Very smart black men who have a lot to say about Obama...and its usually not very good) and I'm a very strong believer in free trade. I don't make moral judgments about some of the more harsh unintended consequences of free trade < - that's not my job, and I don't judge people who make judgments because that is their job.

I just don't believe it's fair to oneself to be so lop-sided in your - it's not fair to the people around you either

anywayz - I wish Obama the best and he has my vote

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:00 am

Speaking of Mr. Williams - I just read this article in the JWR

http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams060208.php3

think about this

According to "We don't have to take $4 gas prices — we can drill," written by Sterling Burnett in the Houston Chronicle (5/21/08), "It is estimated that beneath America's coast lies enough oil to fuel 60 million cars in the United States for 60 years and enough natural gas to heat 60 million homes for 160 years. … If allowed access to American oil reserves in Alaska and off our coastline, American oil companies could increase our country's reserves an estimated fivefold, taking the United States from 11th place to fourth among the countries with proven oil reserves."

You say, "What about the environmental impact?" Contrary to the hysterical claims made by environmental extremists, caribou and other wildlife have expanded and flourished in and around Alaska's Prudhoe Bay, unaffected by the oil and gas development. What's more, Burnett points out that the "two leading environmental groups, the Audubon Society and the Nature Conservancy, have allowed oil and gas production on several of their most important and unique nature preserves."

Environmentalists come to their senses when non-drilling philosophy costs them something. It's two-faced hypocrisy. At times I've suggested that the best way to get oil exploration in the Alaska National Wildlife Reserve is to give the land to environmentalists. You can bet they wouldn't sit on billions of dollars of oil and gas.

The true villain in our having to cough up $60, $70 or $80 to fill our gas tanks is the U.S. Congress caught in the grip of environmental extremists. But if reality is too difficult to swallow, we can continue to blame and support the congressional attack on oil executives, turn food into oil and think of other crackpot "solutions."

mdk · Post by **mdk** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:00 am

telepathy51 wrote:sorry, im just ranting and being stupid...but a two party system is one step below a dictatorship in my opinion....but then again, im just one crazy nut.

i dont think you're crazy, i think you're right. especially with a two party system where there is very little real difference between the parties. the UK is pretty much the same.

forge · Post by **forge** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:12 am

mdk wrote:
telepathy51 wrote:sorry, im just ranting and being stupid...but a two party system is one step below a dictatorship in my opinion....but then again, im just one crazy nut.
i dont think you're crazy, i think you're right. especially with a two party system where there is very little real difference between the parties. the UK is pretty much the same.

where isn't really?

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:19 am

@nbr0118

Thanks for your input. Although I don't agree with your position, I really do appreciate the way you have articulated it. Hypocrisy/prejudice/pre-judging with assumptions is not sole domain of any person, or group.

Its precsicely this sort of "know(or at least attempt to understand)-thine-enemy" type of thinking that Obama is pushing for, IMHO.

For the life of me I can't understand why McCain considers it wrong to engage in diplomacy with "enemies". As Churchill put it, "Better jaw, jaw, jaw - than war, war, war".

cheers
p

mdk · Post by **mdk** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:19 am

@forge: good point.

Huey · Post by **Huey** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:29 pm

I was not even talking to you or responding to anything you said and you attack me personally for my views of the 3 candidates. You evidentally don't take peoples opinions (which we are all entitled to) very well, because you resort to childish name calling and personal attacks. Judging by your reply I can make the assumption that I have been on this Earth a wee bit longer than you, or maybe you struggle in acting age appropriate. You must have many friends with your personality. If you are married and have kids, I pity that family. If your kid or wife spills something, you would probably call them a fucknut too. Nice going.

Moody · Post by **Moody** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:03 pm

forge wrote:
mdk wrote:
telepathy51 wrote:sorry, im just ranting and being stupid...but a two party system is one step below a dictatorship in my opinion....but then again, im just one crazy nut.
i dont think you're crazy, i think you're right. especially with a two party system where there is very little real difference between the parties. the UK is pretty much the same.
where isn't really?

I am in search of that destination. Let me know if you hear of anything.

Moody · Post by **Moody** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:07 pm

IMHO, anybody who sees these candidates as people who will invoke change have possibly missed the last century of politics in the United States.

The time for change has begun... Obama clinches D-Ticket

losermuffin