On Palins speech....

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:05 am

Tone Deft wrote:I disagree with your post MW.

Machinesworking wrote: A lot of republicans weren't happy with McCain either.
uhhhh he won the primary, he's as liked as any of them are going to be. there's a straight up answer to his popularity.
Nah, listen to what the pundits had to say about him before he was a shoe in, it's pretty nasty, there's definitely a rift in the republican party. Mainly though, I think they didn't think he could win, so they want to be 'right' when he loses etc.

Hillary isn't a redneck, and she's not a rabid born again. I think you're missing out on the point of McCain getting a solid % of the christian fundamentalist vote, plus the dumber rednecks are almost a guarantee. The west coast variety won't buy into her schtick maybe, but the midwest swing states just got tougher.
I seriously don't think republicans would win much elections if they hadn't shanghaied the average IQ christian blue color reactionary vote.
she was not picked because of religion. a solid percentage of the fundamentalist vote? that's easy, he's staunch pro-life, done deal. religion has nothing to do with Palin as a pick. do you think the fundies are going to vote pro choice Democrat? this isn't an issue.
Disagree, even nice average weekly church goers are going to be swayed by how 'deep' her religious beliefs are. To them the youtube video there is pretty cool.Sure the fundamentalists are one thing, but Obama is way more of a religious man than say Bill Clinton portrayed himself, so it was possible to get a certain amoiunt of the average IQ christian blue color reactionary vote.

All modern republicans do this, it's annoying. Claiming to be anti big government while running for higher office positions. She didn't say no did she?
did you even watch the video? I didn't say she claimed anything, it's what she said, how she said it and what she followed it up with. show me a single example of a politician on video sarcastically putting down a position for which they'll get picked to fill. just one, can you even come close
This is a bit more extreme for sure, but the republican line is always to bash government. Lines like 'Den of wolves' etc. basically portraying big government as awful, yet running for it. Sure to the democrats it's big news, but republicans eat up this sort of thing, or they ignore it as her taking swing at 'big government'.

sorry, I don't see any of that as being pertinent.

That's your prerogative. As you know I barely care about it anyway. Obama is still not going to get us out of Iraq quickly, we won't leave Afghanistan, we'll still ignore Georgian aggression in favor of re-lighting up our cold war position on Russia, which conveniently sets the stage for aggression towards Iran.
Basically while our domestic policies might improve, Obama offers little to me in regards to cleaning up our image world wide. VP choices wise, that's where I see a real difference in the parties though.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:08 am

mikemc wrote:don't forget to vote, but especially don't forget to buy guns.

forge · Post by **forge** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:25 am

elxicano wrote: By the way, congrats on the new releases with grooveboxmusic. I'll be checking it out soon.

thanx!

j2j · Post by **j2j** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:41 am

well there's a big surprise....

lol--

9 pages...

ohiowa · Post by **ohiowa** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:56 pm

even if palin doesn't want to be in washington she's sure acting like she does. plus her presence is bringing up all the conservative issues that Mccain has been avoiding for most of his campaign.

we live in a country that "elected" bush twice. after all that mess i guess a "divided" republican party doesn't mean much when the conservative redneck vote still has so much power, or at least appears to.

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:58 pm

Community service

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:28 pm

j2j wrote:well there's a big surprise....

lol--

9 pages...

attention whore.

it's fools like this twat that scare me. he still can't say why he's voting for Obama. he probably can't tell the difference between American Idol and a party convention.

it was nice to hear that Heart got pissed off that the GOP used the song 'Barracuda' at the convention, that was a surprise.

it'll be over in 2 months, get your passports ready.

I've been liking this site for news articles, seems pretty balanced.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/

circuitslave · Post by **circuitslave** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:32 pm

j2j · Post by **j2j** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:43 pm

Tone Deft wrote: attention whore.

it's fools like this twat that scare me. he still can't say why he's voting for Obama. he probably can't tell the difference between American Idol and a party convention.

I've decided to vote for Obama after careful analysis. Believe me, I didn't come to a pro Obama position easily.

What really ticks me off is the sick game of hardball the Repubs are now playing. Most likely, it will win them the election......

UNLESS

The size of the grassroots movement Obama has built is bigger and stronger than anybody even Sen. Obama can imagine.

Buleriachk · Post by **Buleriachk** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:45 am

Palin is a strong, bright and very ignorant woman.....

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:12 am

I've been trying to post here about what I felt about Palin's speech. This is my 3rd or 4th go...

The thing that upsets me most was the crack about "John McCain wants to keep America safe from terrorists - Barack Obama is worried someone won't read them their rights."

WTFF? After Abu Graihb???? Isn't that the most profoundly Un-American and unconstitutional (not to mention borderline facist) thing to say??

...and the crowd ate it up.

Here is an article that sums up for me whats wrong with Palin (at least judging from her aceptance speech) and the way it appears the Republicans are going to fight the rest of the campaign. Highly recommended reading.

http://warner.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09 ... eiling/?hp

forge · Post by **forge** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:32 am

Pitch Black wrote:I've been trying to post here about what I felt about Palin's speech. This is my 3rd or 4th go...

The thing that upsets me most was the crack about "John McCain wants to keep America safe from terrorists - Barack Obama is worried someone won't read them their rights."

WTFF? After Abu Graihb???? Isn't that the most profoundly Un-American and unconstitutional (not to mention borderline facist) thing to say??

...and the crowd ate it up.

Here is an article that sums up for me whats wrong with Palin (at least judging from her aceptance speech) and the way it appears the Republicans are going to fight the rest of the campaign. Highly recommended reading.

http://warner.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09 ... eiling/?hp

the scary thing is - how is that any different to Bush/Cheney?

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:41 am

That she said it. To wild applause.

Her whole speech appealed to small-mindedness, greed, fear of The Other, me first . . . the worst parts of human nature.

Hardly "good Christian" sentiments.

In the 1940s, Psychologist Gustav Gilbert was assigned by the US Army to study the minds and motivations of the Nazi defendants at the Nuremberg trials. There is a famous quote from him:

"Evil, I think, is the absence of empathy.”

I would like to see an interviewer ask her "Your son is off to fight in Iraq, if, hypothetically, he was captured, would you want his rights to be upheld?" I would so love to see her answer that.

forge · Post by **forge** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:01 am

Pitch Black wrote:That she said it. To wild applause.

Her whole speech appealed to small-mindedness, greed, fear of The Other, me first . . . the worst parts of human nature.

Hardly "good Christian" sentiments.

In the 1940s, Psychologist Gustav Gilbert was assigned by the US Army to study the minds and motivations of the Nazi defendants at the Nuremberg trials. There is a famous quote from him:

"Evil, I think, is the absence of empathy.”

I would like to see an interviewer ask her "Your son is off to fight in Iraq, if, hypothetically, he was captured, would you want his rights to be upheld?" I would so love to see her answer that.

you're absolutely right, it's worrying. The scary thing is people don't really see that it's not a lot different to the Nazis - the Nazis thought they were doing the right thing by their own people, completely oblivious to how wrong it seems to everyone else in the known universe. Lack of empathy is right. "we are in the right, everyone else is wrong and can die for all I care"

Like the crusades - christians, or any religious zealots are notoriously biggotted. Nazis may not have had religion as their thing, but they were equally zealots.

These people actually seem to think they are justified by God.

but I'm not sure bush/cheney et al haven;t been pretty open about their own blatant, indifferent greed. They seem to have got more and more cocky about it. There is a small handful of people who have profited from the Iraq war, Cheny included, and that to me is the scariest thing about the whole sad state of it - they are not even pretending to serve anyone but themselves. At least the democrats are pretending.

I think the people who clap and cheer really are just that dumb.

deva · Post by **deva** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:14 am

Machinesworking wrote:
mikemc wrote:Seriously, here's the point to 'buy guns'. There are relatively few pieces of the bill of rights that the government is taking very seriously. Arresting reporters, grabbing property, bla bla.

But, you can buy guns all you want. It takes a few days for it to go through, so start soon.

The precept of individual rights is based on the fact that each individual is a force to be reckoned with. Unfortunately, the prevailing atmosphere is not seeing the individual that way, and so individuals attempting to exercising their rights are getting picked off one by one.

You want those rights: you're gonna need the iron to keep them.

Be as liberal, Barney-the-Dinosaur-optimistic, PLUR and joy as you want to be, but the whole scheme requires that you be a force to be reckoned with. The brave man who stands up in the council and speaks his mind isn't doing that just because the rules say he can, it's because he can kick butt.

When Jesus saw he was just about to get busted, he didn't send out his boys for ice cream, or incense.

He sent them out for the iron.

I say buy them because you can right now, but if you think that even 250 million radicals with hand guns, rifles, and the occasional illegal rocket launcher could go against the US military???? Uh, good luck with that. Have fun getting your wife shot ala Ruby Ridge.
Sorry, but protection against attack is the worst excuse for gun ownership. As someone who's family was armed robbed with our gun rack literally 20 feet away from the bed we were hanging out on, I'm pretty aware of that. They're pretty cool if you have to kill somebody, and that other person doesn't have a gun drawn first.
Oh, and they are fun to shoot.

When the US backed coup attempt to overthrow Chavez in Venezuela was happening, 1 million Venezuelans surrounded the presidential palace. Carrying a gun is common in Venezuela. I've read that it is 1 in 4. That means there were 250,000 guns demanding that they get their president back.

They got their president back.

Protection against an increasingly domineering government is a good reason to have a gun(s).