On Palins speech....

ethios4 · Post by **ethios4** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:35 pm

deva wrote:A whole bunch of people just had their rights violated at the RNC. People are facing felony charges after being arrested BEFORE the convention, and charged with things that never happened and never would have happened. A friend of mine had her arm broken by by the police because they did not like that she was videotaping. Did she do one thing illegal? no!

The police targeted journalists on the streets. The Democracy Now team was violently arrested, bloodied, and a couple of them are facing felony charges for doing nothing but journalism. Houses where independent videographers were staying were raided prior to the convention and all their computers and cameras were seized. No crime except being independent.

That is fascism right there. And not one of the major candidates is saying a damn thing about it.

Exactly. That's a big part of why I don't get excited about Obama. Sure, he could just be playing it "safe" for the election, but if he gets in, do you really think he's going to do anything about it? No way, is what I say. He's just the good cop in this routine, and everyone will think he's great when the economy goes into "boom" mode again, meanwhile the foundation of complacency and faulty economics is laid for the next swing to the right. We've just been through some of the most disastrous years in our country's history, and the next guy isn't going to take steps to reverse the decline in Constitutional rights?!? If that's the case, Obama doesn't deserve the presidency any more than McCain, imo. [/cynic]

doc holiday · Post by **doc holiday** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:31 pm

Sarah Palin DID NOT shake things up in AK. despite whatever she says.

The FBI shook things up in alaska. Sarah Palin is simply fallout from the scandals the FBI broke up.

nbr0118 · Post by **nbr0118** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:32 pm

funknotik wrote:
nbr0118 wrote:
funknotik wrote:The Republican national convention was the funniest shit I have ever seen. It was like a Saturday Night live skit, I couldn't believe that shit was real. Mccain said "I know about war, I know about the world." That was priceless stupidity. Sadly after the whole show is over I came back to reality and realized that these people might actually be in a position of power very soon. Very scary indeed, if Mccain gets elected I'm leaving the country for sure. It will take another 50 years for this country to be on par with other "reformed" countries, places that have real democratic elections, healthcare for everyone, and education for everyone. As long as the leaders keep referring to god and have anything to do with evangelical christians we will continue to be fucked. Or rather you will, because I'm leaving...
...please save us the suspense and leave now. It's obvious that most people on this forum have never lead anything in their life, nor would they respect anyone in a leadership role if he/she did not agree with their world view.

I hear these comments...and I hear people with absolutely no clue about the people they disagree with....it's like hearing a bunch of teen kids pretending they understand how the world works...according to their vast life experiences.

I would at least have more respect for these forums if they would at least take disagreements with a little more respect. It is funny...you guys are all about being open-minded....you can't even have civilized discussions because you're so pissed off at the world.

Here is a piece of advice: The world is not some giant conspiracy..where people with money and power are out to get you. Generally people are genuine and honest...even if they are wrong to think the way they do. If they are wrong...do something about it. Take McCain's advice...work your way into a position where you can actually make a difference in the world.

I'll fill you in on something. If you accept that challenge, you'll be a happier person....and ironically you will understand your enemies better...and will better understand how to deal with them. Basically, what I am saying is...GROW UP!!

What happy crappy, fisherprice, television sitcom, my little pony dimension are you living in? Take Mccains advice? Did you watch the fucking speech? He said "I know about the world, I know about war," what kind of a meaningless statement is that? You have to be more retarded and infantile than Palins youngest son to think that there is anything relevant I can extract from your response. We live in a polyarchy and we have a two party system, that sucks and I should be angry about it. Thats not even the least of our problems, and your wondering why people are angry? Everyone should be angry that the constitution is violated on a daily basis, that their is an unjustified war going on, that education and health care are not freely available as they are in the rest of the "civilized" world. Conformity is not a cure for any of these problems and not being in a position of leadership is irrelevant to my arguement. The anouncement of Palins' candidacy for Vice president was exactly what I said it was a JOKE suitable for a Saturaday anight live skit. It looked more like an evangelical revival than a political meeting.

This is not conspiracy either my friend this is what we call in technical literature... "REALITY." This also happens to be well documented in any political science journal worth reading. Read the American journal of political science, or research "Manufacturing Consent, learn about the propaganda model created by Edward S. Herman. Don't just take a spoonful of shit and eat it because it's patriotic. Learn about your government, read about the governments of other nations.

Did you know Bolivia has a more "DEMOCRACTIC" government than we do, they held a multi party election in 2005. This should be an example to people who are satisfied with America's propaganda model and how it filters any dissidence through major media outlets. Here is an excerpt I believe from Noam Chomsky's "Manufacturing consent."

"Labor newspapers and other grassroots media are generally shut down. But dominant radio and TV licenses have literally been handed over to corporate titans, and "advertiser strikes" have made independent newspapers more costly to the reader than their corporate competitors. The result is most global media is consolidated in the hands of a few large corporations, an interlocking cartel representing huge armsmakers,like General Electric (NBC), Westinghouse (CBS), and labor abusers- like Disney (ABC). As with most hierarchically-organized businesses, editors and reporters quickly learn what will and won’t please the people in charge."

To refute one of the stupidest things you said about disgruntled teenagers. Access to information is greater now than it has ever been, so the possibility for a teenager to "understand how the world works" atleast politically is very real. Do you really find it impossible for someone under the age of 20 to read an article online and decide to learn more about the subject? Is the political process so alien to you that the idea of someone young having greater knowledge than you is inconvievable? Also please enlighten us since we the meek and mild proletarians have never been in a glorious and powerful "leadership position," like you have. What exactly are you the leader of, and who the fuck would follow you?

Wow..well I'll keep it simple for you. How about a family for starters. I don't have to go any further than that...because any father or mother or teacher or leader of any kind could read diagnose you just by your language and approach to confrontation. Being a leader is not about holding political power or controlling the media or whatever, it is the way you approach those who disagree with you on a day to day basic (every day life events and circumstances)....having a servant's heart...because that is what ultimately makes a difference....ultimately what convinces others to follow you...it's just life.

I get it...I understand everything you have said...and believe it or not...I have heard it all before. You are completely missing the point. I can see you are passionate about what you believe, and have no problem applauding you for your passion...but I can tell you right now that if you expect to convince others of your beliefs with your approach...then you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

That is honestly why I love my country..because enough good people understand that basic principle.

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:33 pm

doc holiday wrote: king of pork as enough budget surplus to hand out 2 billion dollars to its 600,000 residents

http://www.adn.com/legislature/story/488420.html

she's touting this double standard in a speech today
http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/09 ... -earmarks/

lies.

wait for the debates.

doc holiday · Post by **doc holiday** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:24 pm

thanks for bringing my early morning typo to my attention.

Tone Deft wrote:
doc holiday wrote:Dang, with a family of 5, Sarah Palins family will receive a check from the state for:
$22,400

2,000 PFD, plus this year AK is giving all residents a 1,200 energy cost rebate.

so this state that is king of pork has enough budget surplus to hand out 2 billion dollars to its 600,000 residents

http://www.adn.com/legislature/story/488420.html

will she get more since when her grandchild is born? the grandchild's mom is underage and still a dependent of Sarah Palin.

the kid has to wait a year, then the mom will get the babies.

The question is did Alaska need a 400 million dollar earmark when it can handout 2 billion to it's residents?

In a state that does not collect state income tax.

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:29 pm

^ sadly, that's the kind of logical thinking most Americans may not make

doc holiday · Post by **doc holiday** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:40 pm

you know what else?

SHE TOOK THE MONEY

the bridge money.. she did in fact take the money.

she took it. they just decide not to build the damn bridge with it once the money wasn't "designated" for the damn bridge anymore.

so they spend 8 million per mile to pave a 3 mile road as a run up to this island of 50. it's freaking alaska where EVERYTHING is inaccessible.

thats like 27 million to PAVE a 3 mile road...

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:43 pm

^ but she's got a plan to save Freddie and Fannie...our homes are saved!

forge · Post by **forge** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:45 am

ethios4 wrote: We've just been through some of the most disastrous years in our country's history, and the next guy isn't going to take steps to reverse the decline in Constitutional rights?!? If that's the case, Obama doesn't deserve the presidency any more than McCain, imo. [/cynic]

while I agree and abhor what's gone on the last 8 years, it's easy to forget. Just your father's generation lived through a time where he could have actually been called up and forced to go and fight in one of those insane, unfair wars that dragged on for 10 years and been sent to jail for not going!

Plus, they lived in geniune fear of nuclear holocaust in 1963 with the cuban thing - they really thought that was it.

So while I think there is terrible shit going on now, believe it or not it's an improvement!

I know Bush is getting accolades for being the worst president ever, but I think Nixon still gives him a run for his money.

The far scarier thing is the people. We are fatter, lazier and more complacent and apathetic, we are more interested in whether our own selfish realities will be affected than any one else, even to the extent of people still buying SUVs when it's becoming pretty damn clear that the climate is in crisis. People still starving to death and dying of aids in africa on a scale that would have everybody crying Armageddon if it was happening to us, yet nobody cares.

Just like Pitch black said about Palin's speech appealing to all those small minded, base and ugly sides of people and being greeted by applause

It is the state of the people that has allowed these governments to flourish.

ethios4 · Post by **ethios4** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:00 am

forge wrote:It is the state of the people that has allowed these governments to flourish.

I totally agree. Obama winning would probably encourage people to be more active....McCain winning would probably further cement apathy....I def want Obama to win for that reason.

I'm not sure how to help change the state of the people. I went out to a football game last weekend to help get petitions signed to save our train station. It was really freaking hard and depressing trying to get those people interested. Most people just didn't want to hear it... even young people.

Unfortunately, capitalism, much as I love it, is founded on selfishness, and appeal to the lowest common denominator, when you get down to it. Maybe I'm wrong...more and more it just seems like everything is geared towards advertising, which is dumbed down, hyper-sexualized, self-absorbed, over-stimulated bullshit culture. I don't know how to fight that.

nowtime · Post by **nowtime** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:29 am

Besides Advertisement (and education), it could be the food and the water that is keeping people down. Incredible amounts of chemicals in the average supermarket food. Poisoned fruits and vegetables. Meat from suffering unhappy animals. Flouridated water. Crazy.

forge · Post by **forge** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:34 am

nowtime wrote:Besides Advertisement (and education), it could be the food and the water that is keeping people down. Incredible amounts of chemicals in the average supermarket food. Poisoned fruits and vegetables. Meat from suffering unhappy animals. Flouridated water. Crazy.

actually i think it's even simpler than that - we've just got it too easy

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:13 am

forge wrote: I know Bush is getting accolades for being the worst president ever, but I think Nixon still gives him a run for his money.

Any reasons you believe this? Let's face it, Watergate isn't the first, or last time that sort of thing has gone down.

forge wrote:actually i think it's even simpler than that - we've just got it too easy

Great point. We (USA and the west) don't care about how we treat the rest of the world as long as our own backyard is OK.

Look at how consistently people get annoyed at anyone who brings up the simple fact that money decides 90% of the wests decisions on foreign policy. You get basically attacked over it. People willfully ignore it, it's too painful to admit that your country is involved in the same sort of colonial BS people have pulled for years, but it's most of the time handled through economic deals rather than war.

Once that changes, then maybe we'll see a real change in the world.

forge · Post by **forge** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:17 am

Machinesworking wrote:
forge wrote: I know Bush is getting accolades for being the worst president ever, but I think Nixon still gives him a run for his money.
Any reasons you believe this? Let's face it, Watergate isn't the first, or last time that sort of thing has gone down.

I guess because I read a fair bit of Hunter S. Thompson's accounts of him, which I guess is not necessarily exactly a reliable source, not saying Bush doesnt have an enemies list that we don't know about, but at least he's not conscripting kids into his despicable war

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:19 am

deva wrote: I think it has some significance in discussions about presidential candidates. Not because of gun control legislations, but because the government has run amok and a whole lotta citizens had better get serious about doing something about it. It is not that I think everyone should get a gun as such, but that the image of getting a gun means you are gonna do something... you are gonna defend yourself, be responsible for yourself... you are no longer gonna let yourself be stepped on. That is the spirit that is needed in a country that is remarkably obedient and passive.

The reason we talk about freedom so much is because we don't know what it is or have it.

And yes, all the armed Venezuelans outside the presidential palace influenced and gave courage to the palace guards to do the right thing. A million armed people is a mighty and palpable psychic force to reckon with.

Total agreement. I see your point, well said.

Though a million people in general is pretty dammed amazing. Did you ever see the documentary on that event? it's pretty interesting.