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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:37 am 

Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:31 pm
Posts: 4
Doofus here doesn't really get it.

I just started using groups to do submixes, by sending audio of a few tracks to a new one, so I can run effects etc on the whole thing. Why is this different?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:45 am 

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:39 am
Posts: 23
blaugruen7 wrote:
lets say you have four tracks of some acoustic instrument recording and you route every track into one group track to aply one time the same eq and compressor as an insert.


Yeah i'm also not seeing the full picture here me thinks... :? how is this different to bussing a normal audio track ?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:53 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 8:14 pm
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Location: Bristol, UK
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:57 am 

Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:29 pm
Posts: 3477
Location: Dublin, surprisingly
fly* wrote:
blaugruen7 wrote:
lets say you have four tracks of some acoustic instrument recording and you route every track into one group track to aply one time the same eq and compressor as an insert.


Yeah i'm also not seeing the full picture here me thinks... :? how is this different to bussing a normal audio track ?


Main difference: You can fold/unfold the busses. Can be helpful if you have a bigger project with lots of channels and busses, just to unclutter the view of the mixer.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:07 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2002 12:49 pm
Posts: 278
Location: UK
Mac OS X version:

http://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/midinull.html

Enjoy!

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:20 am 

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:39 am
Posts: 23
pepezabala wrote:
fly* wrote:
blaugruen7 wrote:
lets say you have four tracks of some acoustic instrument recording and you route every track into one group track to aply one time the same eq and compressor as an insert.


Yeah i'm also not seeing the full picture here me thinks... :? how is this different to bussing a normal audio track ?


Main difference: You can fold/unfold the busses. Can be helpful if you have a bigger project with lots of channels and busses, just to unclutter the view of the mixer.


Ah thanks pepezabala... :) i'll give the OS X version a try...

Quote:


Thanks os !!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:14 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:04 pm
Posts: 754
Location: the Netherlands
okay but what we really need of course is to be able to fold the actual source audio tracks into a group.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:20 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2002 1:50 pm
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Location: Awakend
snakedogman wrote:
okay but what we really need of course is to be able to fold the actual source audio tracks into a group.


yes

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:52 pm 

Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 10:10 pm
Posts: 2264
snakedogman wrote:
okay but what we really need of course is to be able to fold the actual source audio tracks into a group.


yes indeed. but since we cant this is a pretty good workaround for now.
also its a way neat way to do audio feedback routes sending to the different chains on the audio group track.

but yeah,for bigger projects this is an absolute must.
since i figured this out it has streamlined my sets and my organisation soooo much.
big ups on the osx version btw.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:32 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:24 pm
Posts: 632
I find it extremely fascinating that Live users are willing to sacrifice CPU and change audio buss routing all for the sake of visual & kinesthetic organization and workflow. Ableton? You guys listening? All of this effort just to fold tracks!

Very interesting.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:13 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:02 pm
Posts: 817
Sorry, i don´t see the point either :?

Except for visuell advantages.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:26 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:31 pm
Posts: 113
very nice. the point being that now when im working on a 40 some track session i can group all 10 percussion tracks into one thing that doesn't take over my mixer. im also pretty sure that it's not using that much DSP. i mean it's not doing anything except routing audio in and out, right?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:33 pm 

Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 10:10 pm
Posts: 2264
pixelbox wrote:
I find it extremely fascinating that Live users are willing to sacrifice CPU and change audio buss routing all for the sake of visual & kinesthetic organization and workflow. Ableton? You guys listening? All of this effort just to fold tracks!

Very interesting.


yeah well. i didnt really need this until lately, before that i usually didnt have alot of track. now i can easily end up with 50+ tracks and not beeing able to group them for easy management is just a workflow stopper. atleast this way i can have all my bus groups with fx groups per bus group (got that?) and be able to quickly show/hide them to quickly and conveniently find what im looking for. anyone whos worked with any type of track grouping options before knows how useful this is. its not a complete workaround but this way you can simply just fold all the tracks to its minimum one play button style width and put them all the way to the left/right, making a makeshift hide group by placing them out of the way with the scroll bar position heh, and then use the show/hide group of the midi tracks and work with the different groups there. then ofcourse if needed you can resize the tracks to go directly to the source audio incase you want to change it.

if you still dont get it, make a big project with alot of tracks and just simply try it. youll be amazed as to how it will help you work and organise things for a faster workflow. seriously. especially with working with multiple groups.

yes, it does sacrifice cpu, but dont wine on me for that, whine on ableton.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:55 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:49 pm
Posts: 1191
Location: Moscow
blaugruen7 wrote:
hmmm...
its a send and so the unprocessed file is still played.


not if you choose "Sends only" in your track output


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:05 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:24 pm
Posts: 632
friend_kami wrote:
pixelbox wrote:
I find it extremely fascinating that Live users are willing to sacrifice CPU and change audio buss routing all for the sake of visual & kinesthetic organization and workflow. Ableton? You guys listening? All of this effort just to fold tracks!

Very interesting.


yeah well. i didnt really need this until lately, before that i usually didnt have alot of track. now i can easily end up with 50+ tracks and not beeing able to group them for easy management is just a workflow stopper. atleast this way i can have all my bus groups with fx groups per bus group (got that?) and be able to quickly show/hide them to quickly and conveniently find what im looking for. anyone whos worked with any type of track grouping options before knows how useful this is. its not a complete workaround but this way you can simply just fold all the tracks to its minimum one play button style width and put them all the way to the left/right, making a makeshift hide group by placing them out of the way with the scroll bar position heh, and then use the show/hide group of the midi tracks and work with the different groups there. then ofcourse if needed you can resize the tracks to go directly to the source audio incase you want to change it.

if you still dont get it, make a big project with alot of tracks and just simply try it. youll be amazed as to how it will help you work and organise things for a faster workflow. seriously. especially with working with multiple groups.

yes, it does sacrifice cpu, but dont wine on me for that, whine on ableton.


Don't taze me, bro!

I wasn't taking a dig at your or criticizing you. I WAS "whining on Ableton" for that.

I'm just pointing out that many Live users are willing to go to great lengths and work around all sorts of obstacles, and re-purpose work flow just to work in this manner, thus, it makes good usability sense to make this easier to do without having to effect the routing. It's plainly obvious that Ableton needs to simply include the ability to fold and group tracks within the GUI and not have it effect anything else. Kinda like Photoshop did with Layer Bins (if you know the reference).

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