oke, I understand (and it's not my site....)Rave wrote:U did good mateAngstrom wrote:it's not just about politeness (and legality!), but saving people work.
If you put a lot of effort into a design and layout - then receive a mail saying
"Hey, it's Gerhard from Ableton here - I love your site but could you make more clear you are not associated with us. EG: reduce the size and prominence of the logo and our branding, because currently it looks like we are affiliated with you. Our affiliates pay a whole metric fuck-ton of cash to be associated with us, and buddy, I don't see no check with your name on it here. But I do see my Glock. You feel me dawg?"
at that point you say "ah fuck, I spent ages getting that layout right, and now I have to re-do the whole thing. Damn."
better to save yourself work.
Ableton Unsigned
Re: Ableton Unsigned
macbook 2.4 ghz 2 gig ram, akai MPK 25, uc33e, apc40, ableton 8 suite, krk vx6, NI audio 8
Re: Ableton Unsigned
levimoniz wrote:Angstrom,
Why would Ableton consider an unsigned artist project that uses their logo a BAD thing?
Perhaps they'll SPONSOR this in the future if it becomes successful enough!
At worst, they'll get some publicity out of it. At best, they'll welcome the concept and maybe even form some sorta vanity label.
Why are you so concerned?
Why would they consider it a bad thing?
OK, imagine that I am starting a website - it's called Radiohead Record Label. I am using the Radiohead logo on it, and the radiohead design style and the radiohead colours (whatever they are)
now, do you think radiohead will be ...
A: really pleased.
B: really, really pleased and even sponsor it !!11!
C: mail you and say - take it the fuck down.
really. Just consider that. Now visit me at www.radiohead-unsigned.com
I'm trying to save people time and effort here. Undoing a load of work then doing it again, that is really annoying, especially if you were happy with the first iteration. I don't want people wasting effort on a design and branding that will get pulled and probably undermine the project just as it finds its feet. because 'just when it finds its feet' is exactly when anyone in Abletons "Branding and Copyright Enforcement" division will start to notice.
a simple polite email with ableton at this point could save a lot of undoing and re-doing later on.
if they reply they will give a little guidance on what to avoid and what's OK to include.
One final thing: here's a real world example.
Two companies that specialise in providing Ableton specific services. Note : how big is the Ableton logo on their pages? Could you confuse these with an official Ableton site?
http://puremagnetik.com/
http://www.covops.org/
also note that I would give the same advice if someone said they were starting up a site called "CocaCola-unsigned". It's not about Ableton specifically, it's about understanding how to start up successful web presence without stepping on peoples toes.
</free business advice>
Re: Ableton Unsigned
FWIW, Ableton was very adament about the ALDJ site not using their logo too, we couldn't even use the session view icon for our site or for some T-shirts. Very adament.
Truly think you guys will have an issue if you decide to try and use it. Just a heads up.
Truly think you guys will have an issue if you decide to try and use it. Just a heads up.
tarekith
https://tarekith.com
https://tarekith.com
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Re: Ableton Unsigned
all good points. but the matter at hand. the first of the new ones were better.
the ableton logo above (with the lines) looks like half of the 5th element movie logo. keep that in your back pocket incase you need some backmail.
it should be bold/sharp in your face
or
picture the scene. its the desert. all you can see is sand dunes with the picture slightly distored from the heat. accros the picture you can see the path left by a man attempting to drag his body accross the desert as if trying to find water. You look a bit closer to see that the man in infact dead with one arm out streched, with a pen in hand about one foot from a piece of paper that have might resuced him from a job as an office drone.
the ableton logo above (with the lines) looks like half of the 5th element movie logo. keep that in your back pocket incase you need some backmail.
it should be bold/sharp in your face
or
picture the scene. its the desert. all you can see is sand dunes with the picture slightly distored from the heat. accros the picture you can see the path left by a man attempting to drag his body accross the desert as if trying to find water. You look a bit closer to see that the man in infact dead with one arm out streched, with a pen in hand about one foot from a piece of paper that have might resuced him from a job as an office drone.
Re: Ableton Unsigned
yes, but check Tarekith's post, I think ALDJ is similar enough to draw a parallel.levimoniz wrote:Is that really anything like what these Ableton Unsigned people are doing?Angstrom wrote:imagine that I am starting a website - it's called Radiohead Record Label. I am using the Radiohead logo on it, and the radiohead design style and the radiohead colours (whatever they are)
Naturally the difference between AU and the sites you named is that those guys are trying to sell something.
No-one is trying to benefit from using Ableton's logo or name here. This is a project involving unsigned artists who happen to USE Ableton, so surely the name and perhaps the logo would be a necessary part of the concept. As long as it's made clear that this is an 'unofficial' thing, I don't see the problem.
But at the end of the day, I, like you Angstrom, really have no personal stake in any result that may come about so I don't care what happens.
Just wanted to point out that allowing it is smartest & coolest thing Ableton could do.
That being : using a "for-profit" organisation's branding to promote an un-affiliated project. You see, by using established branding you can get more kudos. EG: Compare the fictional "Nike-unsigned.com" with "Trevors-unsigned.com", the nike one will get more hits, and hits mean money my friend.
It doesn't matter if you are selling something, it's all about the ownership and licensing of the brand. Yes, it seems crappy, but that's the way business works. The way it really works.
Ableton are all good & friendly people, but they are also pretty tough business types too, make no mistake about it. They didn't get ahead on cuddles alone, they had to punch a few kittens along the way.
Tarekith wrote:FWIW, Ableton was very adamant about the ALDJ site not using their logo too, we couldn't even use the session view icon for our site or for some T-shirts. Very adamant.
Truly think you guys will have an issue if you decide to try and use it. Just a heads up.
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Re: Ableton Unsigned
Just wanted to drop a note and say that:
1. Love the podcast/mix
2. Angstrom's advice is incredibly sound. Listen to him.
1. Love the podcast/mix
2. Angstrom's advice is incredibly sound. Listen to him.
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Re: Ableton Unsigned
But the idea is still good.
Why not change the name of the blog and continue making mixes from unsigned artists?
Why not change the name of the blog and continue making mixes from unsigned artists?
Re: Ableton Unsigned
that's the way!interceptor wrote:But the idea is still good.
Why not change the name of the blog and continue making mixes from unsigned artists?
macbook 2.4 ghz 2 gig ram, akai MPK 25, uc33e, apc40, ableton 8 suite, krk vx6, NI audio 8
Re: Ableton Unsigned
I think he went to Tailand, afraid to be put in jail after this horrible crime
macbook 2.4 ghz 2 gig ram, akai MPK 25, uc33e, apc40, ableton 8 suite, krk vx6, NI audio 8
Re: Ableton Unsigned
Hey guys,
I haven't had a chance to catch up on posts until now. I agree that Ableton may not allow us to use their logo and that is understandable.
I did send an email to Ableton but have not yet received a response. I will re-send it and think it woudl be best to copy more of their contact address. Until I receive a response things should continue as they are.
You all know the story behind the project and it's aim and think it would be great if Ableton got behind it. Even if that meant being allowed to use their logo.
I think this project is as much good publicity for Ableton as it is for the artists.
I haven't had a chance to catch up on posts until now. I agree that Ableton may not allow us to use their logo and that is understandable.
I did send an email to Ableton but have not yet received a response. I will re-send it and think it woudl be best to copy more of their contact address. Until I receive a response things should continue as they are.
You all know the story behind the project and it's aim and think it would be great if Ableton got behind it. Even if that meant being allowed to use their logo.
I think this project is as much good publicity for Ableton as it is for the artists.
Re: Ableton Unsigned
Thats allright, didn't know about their position in the logo use. But I was just tossing some ideas around since I think this is a nice initiative. But if I've learned something from modding games years back is that you need a stable team if you really want to make something out of it. So i'd just thought i'd try and get some more people interested in it
Re: Ableton Unsigned
Hey ya'll how about something like the Reaper boys have? They have Reaper Radio, a streaming Shoutcast station. If there was something like that for Ableton Live users I would definitely tune into that. It's a bit overwhelming trying to sift through stuff in the Link Your Music forum and frankly I'm too lazy to do too much of it. A streaming station would make it all much simpler.
Re: Ableton Unsigned
this is like MTV's Amp for our little forum
cool idea - keep it moving though - don't get stuck on a sub genre
u know what's funny is the opportunity to interact with the people writing the tunes heightens the interest factor dramatically...weird philosophical observation on my part.
cool idea - keep it moving though - don't get stuck on a sub genre
u know what's funny is the opportunity to interact with the people writing the tunes heightens the interest factor dramatically...weird philosophical observation on my part.
Re: Ableton Unsigned
It's funny you should mention that.Rave wrote:I wonder when the next installment is out.
It will be available by the end of this week.
Life has been getting in the way but I'm back on track.