Poll: Did You Use A Crack For Live Before You Bought It?

[longjohns]

is it different if you work the system based on your own abilities, vs. using a "crack" which is provided by someone else? I say yes

[gjm]

How all this would translate into a demo? Maybe a project based demo? You can make one full project with it? This would let people tinker as long as they want on that one project, could learn how to use the software properly, see all the ins and outs and compare their finished project to other projects they have made.

Yes... and No. The point is that you have the ability to save projects. Its irrelevant that you build and save say 10 or more. It all depends what features of the package you are trying out, and how cluttered or uncluttered you want your projects to be in order to try the features, cut your teeth. or do a straight comparison. Limiting it to 1 project only is not helpful for the users who are at the bottom of the pile (so to speak) who are still trying to understand concepts and work flow, as opposed to straight features.

[Sphinx]

Business will adapt to the realities of this new morality and this whole discussion will seem bizarre and anachronistic.

With all due respect...not buyin' it.

[Pasha]

i never even heard of live before someone passed me a copy of v1

i jumped on two from there

OT : The beach ball got me into a Panic Loop.... very clever joke...

[DaffyDub]

YES I SMOKED CRACK BEFORE BUYING LIVE

[Pasha]

+1

Totally. All these people feeling the need to confess had probably better STFU before Ableton introduce a dongle, or PACE/Synchrosoft e-licensing, non of which is convenient to the end user and sometimes affects performance.

The word DISCRETION is one quite a few people on this forum could do with learning. Look it up. If you went legit, then you did the right thing, but we don't need to hear about your stories of running warez on here. This is about the 7th such thread in the last month, and each time more and more crawl out from the woodwork and try to argue that using cracks is just fine and dandy and then most go on to profess they are reformed characters (although quite often allude to the fact that they are using other cracks, but because they like Ableton they are now top line A+ paying customers).

Ableton will surely be scrutinizing this very carefully and it might not play out so well for a few of you out there - and extra copy protection is a PITA for everyone, especially those who are doing the right thing and paying for what they use.

You're right but a company doesn't change its copy protection scheme for some postings.
Cracked Software like illegal music/video download made companies aware of the loss of
money that this represent many years ago and they are simply counterattacking.
I welcomed Ableton's ideas of a 14 Days full trial.
That way people can really try the software without even touching cracked copies.
If you're serious about your music you can't rely on a cracked software.
Pirated Software is a legacy of some hacker ego to be respectful in his community
when he cracks even the hardest protection schemes. I don't think you can stop it.
What can be done is to avoid for people willing to pay to get in touch with this
underworld and the Abes are moving in the right direction.


- Best
- Pasha

[Oscar F]

Never used a crack of the software either.
That said I don't approve of the annual upgrade path and constant user expenditure - I am not a bottomless wallet that can cough up or justify that sort of money year after year.
So I still have Live 3 boxed, 4 and 5 on my old PC system (paid upgrades) and use Logic Pro on my newer computer instead.
I'm not going to knock the company or the software but version 5 was very stable and really had all the features I needed so I am no longer an upgraded user of current versions of Live.
Between Alchemy, LogicPro, Reason4, Reaktor5, DimensionPro, Automat and my hardware - Fusion 8HD, Prophecy, JP8080, TG-33, RS7000, WSA1, MPD32, UC33e and Toshiba Notebook running version 3-5 I have more than enough to keep me going.
The only purchase I'll be making this year is Kubik when Jon finishes coding the OSX version and version 3 is released.
That said even something as simple as Live 3 controlled via the Rs7000 is a pretty killer combo and then some .
Great software but I don't need what 6/7/8 have had to offer.

[pepezabala]

I demoed live3 a couple of weeks, without any saving, but recording out of it, hehe. I was setting up everything from scratch and recording it into a mini disc, every day from scratch again ... and got addicted so I BOUGHT it.

I find that the upgrades are too expensive now. I upgraded to Live 8 now, owning the 7 suite ... to upgrade the suite would be another 170 euros, that's too much now, for a bunch of drumsamples that I don't need and yet another softsynth, that seems to be very powerful though (collision).

But then again I might fall for it when I get the next payqcheque ...

[blackboab]

Guilty as charged ... got hooked on a cracked version 4, and quickly realized that this software was for me. I bought a soundcard with Live light, and have been on the upgrade path ever since.

There was no way I could have come to this realization with a 2 week demo, or a crippled non-save version. So I was very happy to have the crack, and I suppose in a way Ableton must be happy too cause I have been shelling out 100+bucks every year since then

[heavensdaw]

I bought Live 4 box straight up. Didn’t even try the demo, it just seemed to be the program best suited for my needs.

Me also... A friend of mine showed me Live4 and tbh didn't 'get it' at first.. About 6 months later I started reading more about it and watched some Youtube clips.. That was it.. The penny dropped (literally) and have never looked back!

Hd

[Pasha]

Guilty as charged ... got hooked on a cracked version 4, and quickly realized that this software was for me. I bought a soundcard with Live light, and have been on the upgrade path ever since.

There was no way I could have come to this realization with a 2 week demo, or a crippled non-save version. So I was very happy to have the crack, and I suppose in a way Ableton must be happy too cause I have been shelling out 100+bucks every year since then

Today with 14 Day Full Trial would you had done it differently?
I'd like to concentrate on this because many Music Software companies
still do not understand that you cannot evaluate a complex software w/o
saving your work in between especially for newcomers.
I think Ableton made a huge leap forward here. 14 Days are more than enough
to explore and create with a new software and then buy if you feel like it.

- Best
- Pasha

[Angstrom]

Guilty as charged ... got hooked on a cracked version 4, and quickly realized that this software was for me. I bought a soundcard with Live light, and have been on the upgrade path ever since.

There was no way I could have come to this realization with a 2 week demo, or a crippled non-save version. So I was very happy to have the crack, and I suppose in a way Ableton must be happy too cause I have been shelling out 100+bucks every year since then

Today with 14 Day Full Trial would you had done it differently?
I'd like to concentrate on this because many Music Software companies
still do not understand that you cannot evaluate a complex software w/o
saving your work in between especially for newcomers.
I think Ableton made a huge leap forward here. 14 Days are more than enough
to explore and create with a new software and then buy if you feel like it.

- Best
- Pasha

that's not really my experience and in fact represents the opposite of my preference. In my example case MaxMSP allows me to save for 30 days, but I don't really get 30 days - I get 4 hours and in those 4 hours I have bugger all that I really want to save. What I actually need is more flexible use-time, just simply to be able to give it another try at some point in the future.

The programmers may say "but why don't you make use of the full 30 days / 14 days of full feature usage to try our app in the specified timeframe". Of course, I would love to have the sort of life where I can dedicate 14 solid days/30 solid days to "explore and create". But in reality any demo-trying time competes with:

• making actual music on my existing platform (finishing stuff off, etc)
• normal work, for money
• home life, friends, relatives
• bills, shopping, mundane bullshit
• some emergency of some kind that fills up all extra time

Demoing only slots in after all that stuff has been covered. So when software manufacturers congratulate themselves on their 30 days of full usage, they ought to remember that it is not 30 days of full usage - it is 4 hours.

Any time I think "aha, finally all that stuff is out of the way and I've got a chance to try out that app again" ... TIME LIMIT EXPIRED

[Pasha]

Guilty as charged ... got hooked on a cracked version 4, and quickly realized that this software was for me. I bought a soundcard with Live light, and have been on the upgrade path ever since.

There was no way I could have come to this realization with a 2 week demo, or a crippled non-save version. So I was very happy to have the crack, and I suppose in a way Ableton must be happy too cause I have been shelling out 100+bucks every year since then

Today with 14 Day Full Trial would you had done it differently?
I'd like to concentrate on this because many Music Software companies
still do not understand that you cannot evaluate a complex software w/o
saving your work in between especially for newcomers.
I think Ableton made a huge leap forward here. 14 Days are more than enough
to explore and create with a new software and then buy if you feel like it.

- Best
- Pasha

that's not really my experience and in fact represents the opposite of my preference. In my example case MaxMSP allows me to save for 30 days, but I don't really get 30 days - I get 4 hours and in those 4 hours I have bugger all that I really want to save. What I actually need is more flexible use-time, just simply to be able to give it another try at some point in the future.

The programmers may say "but why don't you make use of the full 30 days / 14 days of full feature usage to try our app in the specified timeframe". Of course, I would love to have the sort of life where I can dedicate 14 solid days/30 solid days to "explore and create". But in reality any demo-trying time competes with:

• making actual music on my existing platform (finishing stuff off, etc)
• normal work, for money
• home life, friends, relatives
• bills, shopping, mundane bullshit
• some emergency of some kind that fills up all extra time

Demoing only slots in after all that stuff has been covered. So when software manufacturers congratulate themselves on their 30 days of full usage, they ought to remember that it is not 30 days of full usage - it is 4 hours.

Any time I think "aha, finally all that stuff is out of the way and I've got a chance to try out that app again" ... TIME LIMIT EXPIRED

You're right. I have your same list of things to do that leave very little to music making, but at least I can use that 4 hours in 14 solid days.. better than not. However I really support your point of view. It should be 14 Days based on REAL USAGE.. but I think hackers will crack this in less than 10 minutes...

[Angstrom]

I think Ableton made a huge leap forward here. 14 Days are more than enough
to explore and create with a new software and then buy if you feel like it.

But in reality any demo-trying time competes with:

• making actual music on my existing platform (finishing stuff off, etc)
• normal work, for money
• home life, friends, relatives
• bills, shopping, mundane bullshit
• some emergency of some kind that fills up all extra time

it is not 30 days of full usage - it is 4 hours.
Any time I think "aha, finally all that stuff is out of the way and I've got a chance to try out that app again" ... TIME LIMIT EXPIRED

You're right. I have your same list of things to do that leave very little to music making, but at least I can use that 4 hours in 14 solid days.. better than not. However I really support your point of view. It should be 14 Days based on REAL USAGE.. but I think hackers will crack this in less than 10 minutes...

yes, unfortunately I think that may be the problem with this idea. As I understand it: crackers watch the active memory for noticeable changes in a programs address space, so a big counting clock would probably be too obvious as it made its calls.

Another thing occurs to me though related to this idea, and this one is pretty controversial
Imagine a software company created the perfect demo version:

The "perfect demo" would be perfect from the developers point of view if it converts nearly all demo users to paying customers. The "perfect demo" for potential customers allows them access to evaluate at any free moment they might have.

That would be the perfect demo right? One where Developers see a 98% conversion rate, and users get flexible access until they have made up their minds?
No-one loses there eh?

now ponder the poll above. 98% of the 'crack' users converted to purchasing.

I did mention that this was a controversial idea didn't I?
My point being - an 'active time demo' would probably take a good amount of time to develop and the intended ROI would be 98% conversion. But they seem to have that already from the crackers, so why not simply save their development time for something else instead !!


Sometimes I worry myself

[Da hand]

Another thing occurs to me though related to this idea, and this one is pretty controversial
Imagine a software company created the perfect demo version:

The "perfect demo" would be perfect from the developers point of view if it converts nearly all demo users to paying customers. The "perfect demo" for potential customers allows them access to evaluate at any free moment they might have.

That would be the perfect demo right? One where Developers see a 98% conversion rate, and users get flexible access until they have made up their minds?
No-one loses there eh?

now ponder the poll above. 98% of the 'crack' users converted to purchasing.

I did mention that this was a controversial idea didn't I?
My point being - an 'active time demo' would probably take a good amount of time to develop and the intended ROI would be 98% conversion. But they seem to have that already from the crackers, so why not simply save their development time for something else instead !!


Sometimes I worry myself

That is a bit of what I was trying to get at as well - besides the reasons I mentioned of why people are using cracked versions. The only thing is, that if you give away things for free, then people think it is free. So at the moment, the companies would have to play the game where they have the legit version that customers need to pay for and a cracked / demo version, that they can slide in through a "backdoor", which anyone with minimal computer / internet knowledge can get their hands on.......oh, wait a minute