Novation Nocturn Pros and Cons?

[MetalCube]

Its funny. Eiether choose the nocturn with straight usb or the x session pro witch is midi only. Does the x session have multiple page settings?

[musicmachine]

I dont plan to use it for scratching but more as a midi interface for mixing my tracks in ableton. So if I understand correctly I can set the controller with pages to several Ableton devices, effects, and knobs, for an overall stable set up?

Yep pretty much. You'll be able to do that and control softsynths and outboard via the automap server as someone else mentioned.

[sdmiddleton]

Does the Nocturn GUI behave like a Plugin, as in, accessible from within Live and doesn't have to be opened as a slave like reason for example? And also are the settings or patches saved within the Ableton Browser???

I really want to go the Novation route, but want to remain inside live as much as possible without too much third party device configuring nonsense, if you catch my drift?

[musicmachine]

Does the Nocturn GUI behave like a Plugin, as in, accessible from within Live and doesn't have to be opened as a slave like reason for example? And also are the settings or patches saved within the Ableton Browser???

I really want to go the Novation route, but want to remain inside live as much as possible without too much third party device configuring nonsense, if you catch my drift?

Kinda. The server is basically the heads up gui they talk about in the vids. You can set the size and transparency of it as well. There is a view button on the interface to call it up and with a3 pro there is an autohide function where the gui appears when you touch a control then disappears after a few seconds. As long as the nocturn is plugged in it will boot when you open live and it sits in the system tray and you call it up with the view button. You won't have to go outside live, it behaves just like a plugin but with a basic interface.

You'll probably have to spend some time setting up your templates cos the way it 'automaps' aint exactly intuitive! That's my only gripe with it but otherwise it's a great little controller.

[sdmiddleton]

Ah ok...That does sound cool...so does the Automap GUI talk directly to the Midi Map section or does it bypass Midi Map mode altogether and talk directly to the plug-in Itself?

If it by-passes Live's Midi Map facility, (if it does?) does that mean it has its own process to customise how the function it is controlling is operated, E.g, Inverting and setting the Min/Max range and values etc? And if you look at the specific device that's being mapped, say a beat repeat's On/Off button, would there be white box with Midi/CC numbers visible so we know that that parameter is mapped to something, e.g 3/45....

Many Thanks in advance!!!

[Android Bishop]

Ah ok...That does sound cool...so does the Automap GUI talk directly to the Midi Map section or does it bypass Midi Map mode altogether and talk directly to the plug-in Itself?

If it by-passes Live's Midi Map facility, (if it does?) does that mean it has its own process to customise how the function it is controlling is operated, E.g, Inverting and setting the Min/Max range and values etc? And if you look at the specific device that's being mapped, say a beat repeat's On/Off button, would there be white box with Midi/CC numbers visible so we know that that parameter is mapped to something, e.g 3/45....

Many Thanks in advance!!!

Automap speaks directly to the plugin, it has nothing to do with ableton's midi at all. you can customize all the controls to work exactly how you want them. Set buttons to hold instead of toggle, inverse relationships, high resolution nobs (so long as its plugin control and not midi, which is limited to a 0-127), whatever.

[sdmiddleton]

Ah ok...That does sound cool...so does the Automap GUI talk directly to the Midi Map section or does it bypass Midi Map mode altogether and talk directly to the plug-in Itself?

If it by-passes Live's Midi Map facility, (if it does?) does that mean it has its own process to customise how the function it is controlling is operated, E.g, Inverting and setting the Min/Max range and values etc? And if you look at the specific device that's being mapped, say a beat repeat's On/Off button, would there be white box with Midi/CC numbers visible so we know that that parameter is mapped to something, e.g 3/45....

Many Thanks in advance!!!

Automap speaks directly to the plugin, it has nothing to do with ableton's midi at all. you can customize all the controls to work exactly how you want them. Set buttons to hold instead of toggle, inverse relationships, high resolution nobs (so long as its plugin control and not midi, which is limited to a 0-127), whatever.

Ah ok i'm almost getting it i think, and sounds good...So when you say plug-in that could apply to a 3rd party plugin (SSL X-ISM) or a plug-in in the sense that an Ableton Device (Vocoder) is also considered a plugin?

Could you consider the Macro Controls of an effects rack to be a plugin in the same way - or would you need to scrap the macro commands already created and set up the Autmap GUI to replace this?

[Android Bishop]

UNfortunately, unlike the SL Remote, Live does not recognize the Nocturn as a control surface. Therefore, since live's devices are NOT plugins per say, in order to controll them you have to manually assign them to controls on one of the nocturn's MIDI maps like you would any other controller. The server communicates with wrapped vst/au/rtas plugins and also generates 16 channels of general MIDI maps, but it does not speak directly to ableton as a controller surface. It communicates to ableton through the MIDI maps and other than that, its controlling the plugins directly.

[sdmiddleton]

UNfortunately, unlike the SL Remote, Live does not recognize the Nocturn as a control surface. Therefore, since live's devices are NOT plugins per say, in order to controll them you have to manually assign them to controls on one of the nocturn's MIDI maps like you would any other controller. The server communicates with wrapped vst/au/rtas plugins and also generates 16 channels of general MIDI maps, but it does not speak directly to ableton as a controller surface. It communicates to ableton through the MIDI maps and other than that, its controlling the plugins directly.

Ah, now that is kinda what i wanted to hear...In fact I am drawn to the Novation products SL remote etc more for what look like great features, knobs with LED rings, Pads, Faders, XY pad and LCD display, more than the Automapping function itself, I was a bit put off that i may have to bypass Abletons own Midi Map for a Novation based mapping system, but if you say for the Ableton Native 'Devices', 'Plugin's' whatever you my call them, have to be mapped the old fashioned way, then i think that could be quite a good thing...Sometimes having too many options means you end up tripping over yourself, i think that makes sense now?...So thanks for the advice!!!

[fishmonkey]

UNfortunately, unlike the SL Remote, Live does not recognize the Nocturn as a control surface. Therefore, since live's devices are NOT plugins per say, in order to controll them you have to manually assign them to controls on one of the nocturn's MIDI maps like you would any other controller. The server communicates with wrapped vst/au/rtas plugins and also generates 16 channels of general MIDI maps, but it does not speak directly to ableton as a controller surface. It communicates to ableton through the MIDI maps and other than that, its controlling the plugins directly.

it's pretty straightforward to set up a custom instant mapping to one (or more) of the Nocturn user MIDI map pages though, then you can have the best of both worlds...

djsynchro has a download for a ready-made one on the forum if you do a search for it...

[musicmachine]

UNfortunately, unlike the SL Remote, Live does not recognize the Nocturn as a control surface. Therefore, since live's devices are NOT plugins per say, in order to controll them you have to manually assign them to controls on one of the nocturn's MIDI maps like you would any other controller. The server communicates with wrapped vst/au/rtas plugins and also generates 16 channels of general MIDI maps, but it does not speak directly to ableton as a controller surface. It communicates to ableton through the MIDI maps and other than that, its controlling the plugins directly.

Ah, now that is kinda what i wanted to hear...In fact I am drawn to the Novation products SL remote etc more for what look like great features, knobs with LED rings, Pads, Faders, XY pad and LCD display, more than the Automapping function itself, I was a bit put off that i may have to bypass Abletons own Midi Map for a Novation based mapping system, but if you say for the Ableton Native 'Devices', 'Plugin's' whatever you my call them, have to be mapped the old fashioned way, then i think that could be quite a good thing...Sometimes having too many options means you end up tripping over yourself, i think that makes sense now?...So thanks for the advice!!!

Those led rings and endless encoders are one of the reasons i bought the nocturn. When you change synths the values change to whatever you select; there is no turning the knob to pickup the new paramter and losing the knob position for your other synths and fx. I think the new versions will ship with A3 pro but i'm not certain. Dunno why they took one of lcd screens out tho'!

[supamonsta]

I'll sell you mine for $80 US. Automap is great if you can stand it. But I can't so I don't use it anymore.

same for me. I find it crappy made too, but I guess we've got something in adequation with its price...

I would not advise to buy it, if I had not to sell mine.

but for someone who is 100% vst plugged, and is ok with automap, and does perfectly know what parameters in his plugins he wants to assign, and to what page of parameters, and who has no money for a bigger controller... that's a good cheap choice.

[Greeg]

I think Nocturn is great controller for it's price. It's amazing especially for smaller vst plugins ie some eq, compressors etc. If you want to fully map VST instrument then pick something bigger - Remote Zero SL for example. I really like it. I've created some custom mappings (for example fully mapped Novation V-Station) and can create new presets without touching mouse, looking at widescreen monitor. It feels like hardware.

So my advice. Create your own mappings - doesn't matter if it's for Nocturn or Remote Zero. Automappings are hmm poor

[MetalCube]

Ya Im just going to use it for DJ controls to go with my axiom... Fill in the knob gaps.