who do you report cracked software to for ableton?

[Dexes]

Actually I really planed on not contributing to this discussion (been through it often enough with more than enough people).

But lets say were takling food here, sitting in a fine restaurante with our juicy steak contemplating on whether or not to order a second helping of that lovely caviar:

People who can't afford can eat rotten fruit or dead rats.

Or get a job, or save up and buy. Can't afford doesn't make it right to eat good food.

Most people can afford but are too cheap to pay, yet will splash out on 30 dollar school for their kids, fixing the hole in the roof and chicken with 70 cent a bag of corn. One dude here has a new cow that would have cost a pretty penny and he admits to stealing food.

If you got the money, then it's plain douchery ... simple. If you haven't then you have cheap and free alternatives that are very functional. You can buy moldy vegetables at a low price too, which gives a lot of food's functionality for those who can't afford the fresh product. you can now taste food free for 14 days no restrictions, including steak and kaviar and wine, so 'try before buy' is redundant too.

Sorry couldn't resist. And I won't let any "bad analogy" comments count since I would deffenatly go without food for a few days before going without music.

To your mugging analogy leeds: 1 point you missed, if you mug someone they loose whatever you take. The people who are that fanatical about running shoes that they buy the $300 pair (probably made from the same parts, in the same factory, by the same children as the $30 pair 2 shelves fürther with a different logo) have their priorities set and just wouldn't use the software if their was no cracked version.

Studios, professional producers who make money off their productions & use cracks, fair enough calling them douchbags. Kids who spend 3 hours a week making music once they've done their homework...they would never have the posibality to pay for this kind of software so their is no loss (either ableton - or any other company - don't get any money because the kids don't buy their product, or they don't get any money because they don't buy it).
On the other hand mabe a few of those kids are so inspired by the software make great music for the good of all mankind and might even pay for the product later on in life when they can afford it (and can then impress us all with great techniques that noone would have guessed existed had that kid not pirated the software at some earlier point).

What are the main considerations for choosing a DAW - basic GUI and simple operation of core features. I think the 14 day demo allows plenty of time for that, although I appreciate the busier ones (working, married with family as am I) will have much less free time to evaluate. Take a weekend and set aside 3 or 4 hours per weekend day and that should be enough to know if it rings your bell.

Reading some of your posts around here it seems you've been making music for quite some time now and know your way around production software & techniques, so this might be fine for you.
I for my part started barely 2 years ago (had played around with fast tracker II in the mid 90s but nothing serious) untill I got a cracked version of reason 3 and I spent over half a year using it, playing with it, testing all the different thing one could do with it, basically learning to make music from scatch, before actually buying it. Had I been restricted to 2 weeks (or even 2 months) I would have given up hope that I could ever do anything worth making with it and would never have bought any DAW.
At this point I can franticly wave my hand in the air saying my I got a free copy of live lite 6 + free upgrade to live lite 7, with my remote zero sl and was so impressed that I upgraded to the full version within a week and a half and now own a boxed version of suite 8 without ever using a cracked version of live - though I would have an extra 2000euro worth of vinyl (and finally got those crackling faders on my mixer repaced) instead of spending it on live/reason/controlers/vst's had I not downloaded that cracked reason torrent back then.

Seriously though, you have to get away from that idea that you lose something just because someone else gains something, it'll only make you unhappy, as there will allways be someone who got it cheaper, achieved it more easily, made it there faster, etc.

PS: allthough I just quoted leedsquietman in this post it's directed at everybody whining about kids using cracks (except the abes ofcourse, as it's their software they obviously have the right to)


--------------------------------------

Any while we're on the topic of making music and pirating, let me just mention one more word (and I'm not religious, so you don't get the meaning wrong): AMEN!!!

[patekswiss]

Ya know, I'm someone who's purchased every bit of music software that he's ever used (except for the freeware, of course -- and megaprops to those who have shared their creations). And in particular over the years I've paid hundreds, if not more, to Ableton, as have many here, and much much more for plugs, cards, other DAWs and whatnot. And I'm not one who thinks that the music software business, by and large, is gouging its customers. I find the price of most of the stuff quite reasonable and the service generally good. And most of these are small businesses facing a limited and narrow audience for their products, tough (bordering on predatory) competition from the Apple juggernaut, and I understand the cost and profit issues they have and why they need to charge fair prices for their products. I'm willing to pay those prices.

Having said that, there is something creepy about the lust some users demonstrate to "report" cracked software to the manufacturer. I dunno, I guess I just think that there are better things to do. And maybe it just got burned into my brain as a youngin', but I've never been able to abide tattletales. I understand that profit "leakage" resulting from software theft adds to the price that paying customers like the rest of us have to bear, but something about this self-righteous enthusiasm about "nailing" P2P or torrent downloaders, and censoring forum posts after the fact, just rubs me the wrong way.

Also, let's face it, you might succeed in getting a program downloaded or working using a crack, but to do this as a way of life and as a way of working is to waste a huge amount of time and cat-and-mouse effort dealing with cracks, codes, problems, lack of support and no upgrade path. This for most professionals and non-professional serious musicians/producers is vastly more costly than just ante-ing up the money to buy the authorized version, making it pretty much self-defeating to illegally download (at least for the big stuff). So I kind of wonder how much we really need to worry about these unethical people on the margin, with a ton of free time on their hands, using unauthorized copies -- even if it pisses us off that they're not paying like we are.

Just my 2 cents.

[GeoSuPhat]

So after reading all six pages of this, I have pretty much come to one conclusion..

I am not going to get a free copy of operator for upgrading to Live 8, am I.

[leedsquietman]

I've never usedcracked software in my life, but I'm pretty much of the opinion of Smutek. I say that people should go legit.No-one is perfect, I have messed up and made plenty of mistakes in my life in other ways, but discretion is a very useful quality in life. I'm not really an evangelist about this even if I seem like I am. I don't have the time to go around getting the authorities involved and calling people out over illegal software use, but some people who are boasting and crowing about cracked software, I would not feel one ounce of sympathy for you if you got burnt after playing with fire. In fact, I'm surprised Ableton don't delete those posts, or threaten bans on the posters, because on the Cubase forum they'd be gone in minutes. Then again, needing to enter dongle codes to participate kind of prevents these threads in the first place, and believe it or not, I actually prefer that ABleton don't use that system, even though that gives a platform for people to post details of software misuse and abuse and support it.

If I ever was going to run a crack, I would keep my mouth shut about it, and if I liked the software, I would go legit as soon as and not share my tales of misdemeanour on a public forum - nor would I ask for tech support. This is the point Smutek made and I agree.

Kids - some kids do not have much, but a LOT of kids get thousands of dollars worth of presents each year. I work in education and most of these kids (in a public school system btw), have PSPs, XBox 360s or PS3s, expensive Nikes and designer clothes. And this is elementary school, high school kids got huge screen TVs, expensive computers, expensive iphones etc. So in this situation, those kids could at least buy a copy of Live LE. And the one's who can't afford it can use Acid XMC, or get Reaper or Energy XT, something very reasonably priced, but still powerful. You don't have to carve up my posts and requote with all kinds of added baloney. Most cracked software is NOT used by 'kids' anyway, most of it is used by ADULTS who have money but who are too cheap to pay, yet have no issue buying blue ray players and 50 inch large screen LCD TVs.

There is no valid argument for using cracks. It is just wrong and it's that simple. Those who later did the right thing, I applaud them, because as said, no one is perfect and their support is now positive and valuable to the company, although the fact that so many are confessing to misusing software previously shows how difficult it is for Ableton and others to make any kind of living at this, and with so many coming out of the woodwork in this way, could prompt a rethink about Live getting dongled up, or at least even more stringent and inconvenient copy protection, which I'm sure very few want. This is another good reason to just keep quiet about illegal software. Confession might be good for the soul, but it can have consequences !!!

[sacredgeometry]

+1

Guilty consciences and denial don't make it right, even if you think it's right in your head. So Brian and Imaulle, I suggest you talk that over with your therapists. And supply the names and e-mail addys of these so called reformed characters so Ban Piracy can check them out for real, should be no probs if they're all legit, right.


What are the main considerations for choosing a DAW - basic GUI and simple operation of core features. I think the 14 day demo allows plenty of time for that, although I appreciate the busier ones (working, married with family as am I) will have much less free time to evaluate. Take a weekend and set aside 3 or 4 hours per weekend day and that should be enough to know if it rings your bell.

not everyone feels bad about things that dont matter...im sorry you do its a real shitter for you im sure.

secondly you are the kind of fool that make people need dongles realy users that pay for software are the only ones that suffer...things will allways be cracked theres no way to stop it the only thing that your bitching does is make companies think that people want tighter security at any cost.......you douche i have seen it in so much software at one point if i was only my laptop i was restricted to only loading up 3 softwares on the go caus id run out of usbs it fucked my workflow so much i decided to crack software i had allready bought it was pointless and stupid.

Almost like this bullshit argument

Peace

Brian

[adventurepants_]

secondly you are the kind of fool that make people need dongles realy users that pay for software are the only ones that suffer...things will allways be cracked theres no way to stop it the only thing that your bitching does is make companies think that people want tighter security at any cost.......you douche i have seen it in so much software at one point if i was only my laptop i was restricted to only loading up 3 softwares on the go caus id run out of usbs it fucked my workflow so much i decided to crack software i had allready bought it was pointless and stupid.

bafflingly, i agree with this point. I think its quite ok to buy software and then to crack it to get rid of stupid DRM, as long as you do not distribute it. DRM is almost always forced on software developers by the clueless pointy haired boss or the board, that have to justify things to the shareholders. The developers often hate putting DRM in, and hate what it does to performance and convenience.

With PC games, i think its ok to buy it, and then crack it, so i dont have to have the stupid disc in the drive every time i want to play. I call that fair use. You have to buy it first though to make this moral stand, people who just pirate software and then use the DRM as a justification for that piracy are pathetic.

[timwright]

I use demonoid for finding accapellas and old movies and such but just saw on the front page live 8????????? WTF this crap has got to be stopped. heres the link if anyone knows who to report this to.

***********************SORRY******************************

so these accapellas and old movies you "find" on demonoid, i presume these are all copyright free ?

My first thought too. "I was downloading some illegal music and they were giving away something I'd bought ". You'd probably not bothered downloading it if you knew it was also free, right? Pot, kettle anyone?

[alexsg]

i used a crack for a while. i was interested in all the live electronic stuff and was 17 and had no cash. you cant really explore that side of live in 14 days at all, not to really get an idea of the scope of the possibilities. a bit later i got a few paying gigs and i saved up the money to buy it because i loved it so much.
i dont feel at all bad about it and i dont think i did anything wrong.

i would never have been able to purchase live then, and the pirate copy was the reason i got hooked on the program and bothered to save up to buy it (and its pretty damn expensive for a student, even with the discount). in fact it was probably one of the first times i had ever really saved up that kind of money.

[starving student]

I only download hardware that looks like software and sounds like accapellas and old movies now STFU

I downloaded a cracked version of maschine and then paid ni to take it back now STFU

I downloaded a virtual emulation of myself downloading a virtual emulation of myself now STFU

I downloaded a cracked version of Ableton the whole company and then went in and paid them cash for a legitamate copy of Live now STFUUUUUUUUUUUU

[Gab]

you cant really explore that side of live in 14 days at all, not to really get an idea of the scope of the possibilities.

I totally agree with you: when you begin to fiddle with Live as your first serious DAW/piece of software, 14 days are NOT enough. But this is why the non-save limitation of the demo is great, you can use all of Live's possibilities for an unlimited amount of time - you don't need to save your set to learn how to build a rack, how to warp, how to learn how to automate your track. And the more you repeat each step after quitting Live the more you become used to it - efficient.

And there are enough free tutorials on the net, not to mention the possibility to buy the printed manual from the Abes for us PDF haters, to be able to eventually get some skills with Live; then, when you want to record something to give it a more extensive try, get a 14-days licence.

I think this 'dual mode' demo, first without save, then with the full-functionality 14-days licence, is the BEST answer to us beginners with Live. The best possible solution. Here, the 'try before you buy' justification is rather worthless.

I am still fiddling with Live 8 Suite demo, my manual shall arrive this morning, btw. So, no crack for me either. No need for one anyway!

I downloaded a cracked version of Ableton the whole company and then went in and paid them cash for a legitamate copy of Live now STFUUUUUUUUUUUU

[macmurphy]

and from experience i have witnessed over 50 of my friends going from cracked versions to payed....

You have 50 friends who use Live? Really?

[macmurphy]

I'll put my hands up and say I had a cracked copy of Live before I bought it.

How many of you can honestly say you didn't?

I can.

[leedsquietman]

Sacredgeometry - it takes a douche to know a douche. And I am certainly inferior in the douchery department next to Sacredgeometry, douche master (yes you know you display your plaque with pride).

I dare say you also excel in the fucktard category.

You've been here for 5 minutes and contributed NOTHING, except lay bare your guilty conscious and BS theories on illegal warez.
How about putting some music up, or responding to threads which matter, instead of wasting your time arguing like a spoiled 2 year old.

[logic_user99]

and from experience i have witnessed over 50 of my friends going from cracked versions to payed....

You have 50 friends ? Really?

This thread is quite an interesting read.

[xsic]

i don´t get it.

some are complaining about 14days of trial isn´t enough ?

what are you doing before bying a synth or a drum machine ? steal it, test it for 2 years, and then give the dealer his money ?

all this piracy stuff is because you cannot hold software-prgs in you hand. and just because of this it´s legit?

and if you want to learn, buy LE version and make the best of it !

get to know the value of things ! everything has become so damn easy ! chop a break? let it do the software ! and if the (cracked) software doesn´t do it correctly, complain in a forum about this wanky piece of shit!

people are working on software and they do need to get paid. the less people pay, the more the software/hardware/cocks costs.

i´m with you leedsman....


ps. before someone starts his f++k you blahblah style, this is my opinion! nothing more nothing less. no insulting special people here.