Do you leave your computer on?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live

Do you leave your computer on?

Yes
42
39%
No
43
40%
Sometimes
23
21%
 
Total votes: 108

xsic
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Re: Do you leave your computer on?

Post by xsic » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:03 am

does anybody know about the relationship between energy-consumption/burning fossils when leaving you computers/harddrives/etc on and the energy-consumption when producing new computers/hardrives ?

what i mean is : if you can make your computer "live" longer by keeping it on all the time, does it cost more energy than producing a new computer/hardrive/etc ?
and is this relevant at all ?
do hardware "live" longer when you keep it running ?
if not, all this "i leave my computer on because of workflow" to me then is irrelevant.

i really would like to know, as i don´t have a clue right now and there are so many misleadings about being ecological these days......
macbook pro 2,4 Ghz - OS 10.5.7 - live 8.0.3 - logic studio
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fishmonkey
Posts: 4218
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:50 am

Re: Do you leave your computer on?

Post by fishmonkey » Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:06 am

doc holiday wrote: sorry, but you are wrong. it's the hard drive that does not like to be shut off! always leave your externals plugged in.

there is this thing called stiction.

harddrive platters have a thin lubricating surface which allows the heads to be very close to the platter, as the drive spins this surface is pulled to the edges of the platter

the issue happens when the drive heads are parked and this layer cools and hardens. you are left with a raised area around the edge of the harddrive which the heads cannot move past rendering the harddrive useless and dead.
i don't think this is really a problem with current hard drives, as the heads are generally parked on a ramp, partly to avoid the stiction problem...

here's a geek link: http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib. ... _FINAL.pdf

serge_a_storms
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Re: Do you leave your computer on?

Post by serge_a_storms » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:21 am

UKRuss wrote:I turn everything off, every night. It's an enviro thing...plus an fire risk thing.
+1
MacBook Pro i7 16gb RAM, OSX 10.11.2, Live 9.7

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DrXparaMental
Posts: 950
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:18 pm

Re: Do you leave your computer on?

Post by DrXparaMental » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:33 pm

H20nly wrote:I was being a smart ass with the every 6 years comment. My point was that they'll last at least that long unless they were garbage from the factory. 2.5 is way more like what I really apply to my system. That said I have overlooked one point in my argument... I'm talking Western Digital or Seagate. I have little if any respect for most other manufacturers. I wouldn't bet 20 bucks on a Maxtor.

I agree that turning off and on too much probably isn't good either, but when I'm done I shut down my computer. Sometimes I start working on a Friday and end up leaving it on all weekend. When its time to go to work on Monday, the iron, stove, lights, and computer are all in the off positions. I simply won't be so bold as to leave my computer running 24/7 and not expect that I'm putting unnecessary rotations on the drive platter.
Thanks! (on the longer than 2.5 year replacement recommendation)I am certainly NOT rich so more time per knowledgeable recommendation is a very good thing.

I agree and use nothing but WD & Seagate because they pretty much, hands down, maintain the status quo for both cutting edge and industry standard hard drives. I am not certain but I believe that Maxtor is now basically a private label "budget", or substandard, Seagate. Not completely sure though.

fishmonkey
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Re: Do you leave your computer on?

Post by fishmonkey » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:34 pm

Seagate bought out Maxtor a couple of years ago...

DrXparaMental
Posts: 950
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:18 pm

Re: Do you leave your computer on?

Post by DrXparaMental » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:43 pm

xsic wrote:does anybody know about the relationship between energy-consumption/burning fossils when leaving you computers/harddrives/etc on and the energy-consumption when producing new computers/hardrives ?

what i mean is : if you can make your computer "live" longer by keeping it on all the time, does it cost more energy than producing a new computer/hardrive/etc ?
and is this relevant at all ?
do hardware "live" longer when you keep it running ?
if not, all this "i leave my computer on because of workflow" to me then is irrelevant.

i really would like to know, as i don´t have a clue right now and there are so many misleadings about being ecological these days......
Forgive me for posting again so quick in this thread, but this *is* such a fascinating consideration. In this day and age of commercially force fed "green", it's very easy to loose sight of the real case for dust to dust comparative efficiency testing.

I was SHOCKED when I found out that in real dust to dust analysis and testing, all environmental impact considered, the Hummer was actually a more environmentally friendly vehicle than a Honda hybrid! 8O

A truly GREAT posted perspective reminder xsic, thanks.

Long live Wall-E. :)

fishmonkey
Posts: 4218
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:50 am

Re: Do you leave your computer on?

Post by fishmonkey » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:49 pm

that sounds innaresting, you got a link for that?

ethios4
Posts: 5377
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:28 am

Re: Do you leave your computer on?

Post by ethios4 » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:54 pm

fishmonkey wrote:Seagate bought out Maxtor a couple of years ago...
+1 and I wouldn't touch a WD drive. I used to think they were great because someone told me they were, but nearly every WD drive I have has died, but my Seagates are still going strong.

DrXparaMental
Posts: 950
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Re: Do you leave your computer on?

Post by DrXparaMental » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:33 pm

fishmonkey wrote:that sounds innaresting, you got a link for that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNW_Marketing_Research

Please forgive as it was a Toyota and not a Honda. Naturally as you can well imagine the Green Team has attempted to bash it's results as "questionable", but thus far (AFAIK) can't disprove anything.

DrXparaMental
Posts: 950
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:18 pm

Re: Do you leave your computer on?

Post by DrXparaMental » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:36 pm

ethios4 wrote:
fishmonkey wrote:Seagate bought out Maxtor a couple of years ago...
+1 and I wouldn't touch a WD drive. I used to think they were great because someone told me they were, but nearly every WD drive I have has died, but my Seagates are still going strong.
This is interesting. How long did you have them when they died and what type did you have? Were the drives being used for typical applications, or was gaming involved?

I have had WD almost exclusively for the last 12-14 years and never had one fail.

Knock on wood (picture me rapping my knuckles again me own ed) :lol:

Aequitas123
Posts: 1204
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:58 pm

Re: Do you leave your computer on?

Post by Aequitas123 » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:40 pm

i'll just chime in here again...

I bought a PC when i started university. I've owned it to this day... 7 years and I haven't done anything but added RAM.

This PC has been left on 99% of the time and has never once caused me problems, other then it being an old outdated computer that can't handle 7 instances of East West Quantum Leap Symphony Orchestra.

djsynchro
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Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
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Re: Do you leave your computer on?

Post by djsynchro » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:57 pm

Congratulations on wasting a shitload of electricity for nothing!

Aequitas123
Posts: 1204
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Re: Do you leave your computer on?

Post by Aequitas123 » Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:26 pm

meh...


the solution shouldn't be to use less electricity, it should be to create or harness electricity using environmentally sustainable means.

H20nly
Posts: 15844
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: The Wild West

Re: Do you leave your computer on?

Post by H20nly » Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:39 pm

ethios4 wrote:
fishmonkey wrote:Seagate bought out Maxtor a couple of years ago...
+1 and I wouldn't touch a WD drive. I used to think they were great because someone told me they were, but nearly every WD drive I have has died, but my Seagates are still going strong.
Those Western Digitals must have been refurbished. Its part of my job to install and maintain hard drives, disk arrays... blah.. Those drives are not junk I have personally installed 100s of them and seen hardly any fail that weren't several (7ish) years old.

You can love Seagate and stick with them. I think you'll be fine...but something is amiss with that nearly every WD drive statement...

djsynchro
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Re: Do you leave your computer on?

Post by djsynchro » Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:49 pm

Energy Facts

Energy Consumption

*

Though accounting for only 5 percent of the world's population, Americans consume 26 percent of the world's energy. (American Almanac)
*

In 1997, U.S. residents consumed an average of 12,133 kilowatt-hours of electricity each, almost nine times greater than the average for the rest of the world. (Grist Magazine)
*

Worldwide, some 2 billion people are currently without electricity. (U.S. Department of Energy)
*

Total U.S. residential energy consumption is projected to increase 17 percent from 1995 - 2015. (U.S. Energy Information Administration)
*

World energy consumption is expected to increase 40% to 50% by the year 2010, and the global mix of fuels--renewables (18%), nuclear (4%), and fossil (78%)--is projected to remain substantially the same as today; thus global carbon dioxide emissions would also increase 50% to 60%.
*

Among industrialized and developing countries, Canada consumes per capita the most energy in the world, the United Sates ranks second, and Italy consumes the least among industrialized countries.
*

Developing countries use 30% of global energy. Rapid population growth, combined with economic growth, will rapidly increase that percentage in the next 10 years.
*

The World Bank estimates that investments of $1 trillion will be needed in this decade and upwards of $4 trillion during the next 30 years to meet developing countries' electricity needs alone.
*

America uses about 15 times more energy per person than does the typical developing country.
*

Residential appliances, including heating and cooling equipment and water heaters, consume 90% of all energy used in the U.S. residential sector.
*

The United States spends about $440 billion annually for energy. Energy costs U.S. consumers $200 billion and U.S. manufacturers $100 billion annually.

Global Warming

*

Worldwide, 1995 was the warmest year since global temperatures were first kept in 1856. This supports the near consensus among climatologists that emissions of carbon dioxide and other gases are causing global warming. (Chivilan and Epstein, Boston Globe)
*

On average, 16 million tons of carbon dioxide are emitted into the atmosphere every 24 hours by human use worldwide. (U.S. Department of Energy)
*

Carbon emissions in North America reached 1,760 million metric tons in 1998, a 38 percent increase since 1970. They are expected to grow another 31 percent, to 2,314 million metric tons, by the year 2020. (U.S. Department of Energy)
*

The United States is the world's largest single emitter of carbon dioxide, accounting for 23 percent of energy-related carbon emissions worldwide. (U.S. Department of Energy)
*

An average of 23,000 pounds of carbon dioxide are emitted annually in each American home. (U.S. Environmental Protection Agency)
*

The transportation sector consumed 35% of the nation's energy in 1990; this sector is 97% dependent on petroleum.
*

Fossil fuels are depleted at a rate that is 100,000 times faster than they are formed.

Health

*

Approximately 30,000 lives are cut short in the U.S. each year due to pollution from electricity production. (ABT Associates study)
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About 81 tons of mercury are emitted into the atmosphere each year as a result of electric power generation. Mercury is the most toxic heavy metal in existence. (U.S. Environmental Protection Agency)
*

Burning fossil fuels to produce energy releases carbon dioxide and other global-warming-causing gases into the atmosphere. Global warming will increase the incidence of infectious diseases (including equine encephalitis and Lyme disease), death from heat waves, blizzards, and floods, and species loss. (Chivilan and Epstein, Boston Globe, April 10, 1997)

Transportation

*

The United States consumes about 17 million barrels of oil per day, of which nearly two-thirds is used for transportation.
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The United States imports more than seven million barrels of oil per day.
*

While the world's population doubled between 1950 and 1996, the number of cars increased tenfold. Automobile congestion in the United States alone accounts for $100 billion in wasted fuel, lost productivity, and rising health costs. Still, analysts project that the world's fleet of cars will double in a mere 25 years. (Worldwatch Institute)
*

Americans use a billion gallons of motor oil a year, 350 million gallons of which end up polluting the environment. (Department of Energy and Maryland Energy Administration)
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A car that gets 20 miles per gallon (mpg) emits approximately 50 tons of global-warming-inducing carbon dioxide over its lifetime, while a 40-mpg car emits only 25 tons. Over the average lifetime of an American car (100,000 miles), a 40-mpg car will also save approximately $3,000 in fuel costs compared to a 20-mpg car. (Natural Resources Defense Council)
*

The cars and trucks reaching the junkyards this year have higher gasoline mileage, on average, than the new ones rolling off dealers' lots, for the first time on record. (Matt Wald, The New York Times, August 11, 1997)

Renewables

*

Only 7.5 percent of total U.S. energy consumption came from renewable sources in 1998. Of that total, 94 percent was from hydropower and biomass (trash and wood incinerators). (U.S. Energy Information Administration)
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For the 2 billion people without access to electricity, it would be cheaper to install solar panels than to extend the electrical grid. (The Fund for Renewable Energy Everywhere)
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Within 15 years, renewable energy could be generating enough electricity to power 40 million homes and offset 70 days of oil imports.

Photovoltaics

*

Providing power for villages in developing countries is a fast-growing market for photovoltaics. The United Nations estimates that more than 2 million villages worldwide are without electric power for water supply, refrigeration, lighting, and other basic needs, and the cost of extending the utility grids is prohibitive, $23,000 to $46,000 per kilometer in 1988.
*

A one kilowatt PV system* each month:
o

prevents 150 lbs. of coal from being mined
o

prevents 300 lbs. of CO2 from entering the atmosphere
o

keeps 105 gallons of water from being consumed
o

keeps NO and SO2 from being released into the environment

* in Colorado, or an equivalent system that produces 150 kWh per month

Wind

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Wind power is the fastest-growing energy source in the world. (Worldwatch Institute)
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The wind in North Dakota alone could produce a third of America's electricity. (The Official Earth Day Guide to Planet Repair)
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Wind power has the potential to supply a large fraction--probably at least 20%--of U.S. electricity demand at an economical price.
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In 1990, California's wind power plants offset the emission of more than 2.5 billion pounds of carbon dioxide, and 15 million pounds of other pollutants that would have otherwise been produced.
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Using 100 kWh of wind power each month is equivalent to:
o

planting ½ acre of trees
o

not driving 2,400 miles

Solar Thermal

*

Research shows that an average household with an electric water heater spends about 25% of its home energy costs on heating water.
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Solar water heaters offered the largest potential savings, with solar water-heater owners saving as much as 50% to 85% annually on their utility bills over the cost of electric water heating.
*

You can expect a simple payback of 4 to 8 years on a well-designed and properly installed solar water heater. (Simple payback is the length of time required to recover your investment through reduced or avoided energy costs.)
*

Solar water heaters do not pollute. By investing in one, you will be avoiding carbon dioxide, nitrogen oxides, sulfur dioxide, and the other air pollution and wastes created when your utility generates power or you burn fuel to heat your household water. When a solar water heater replaces an electric water heater, the electricity displaced over 20 years represents more than 50 tons of avoided carbon dioxide emissions alone.

Alternative Fuels

*

Using biodiesel in a conventional diesel engine substantially reduces emissions of unburned hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, sulfates, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, nitrated polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, and particulate matter.
*

Biodiesel:
o

can be used at 100% levels or mixed in any proportion with No. 2 diesel or No. 1 diesel.
o

Contains no nitrogen or aromatics
o

Typically contains less than 15 ppm sulfur - Does not contribute to sulfur dioxide emissions
o

Has characteristically low carbon monoxide, particulate, soot and hydrocarbon emissions
o

Contains 11% oxygen by weight
o

Has the highest energy content (BTUs) of any alternative fuel and is comparable to No. 1 diesel.
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Over 4,000 electric vehicles are operating throughout the United States (with the largest number in California and the western United States).
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More than 20,000 flexible-fuel vehicles are in operation.
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Over 75,000 natural gas vehicles in U.S. and nearly 1 million worldwide.

Energy Efficiency

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By taking appropriate energy-saving measures, by 2010 the United States can have an energy system that reduces costs by $530 per household per year and reduces global warming pollutant emissions to 10 percent below 1990 levels. (Energy Innovations report)
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Just by using the "off the shelf" energy-efficient technologies available today, we could cut the cost of heating, cooling, and lighting our homes and workplaces by up to 80%. (U.S. Department of Energy and Maryland Energy Administration)
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Replacing one incandescent lightbulb with an energy-saving compact fluorescent bulb means 1,000 pounds less carbon dioxide is emitted to the atmosphere and $67 dollars is saved on energy costs over the bulb's lifetime. (U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and Alliance to Save Energy)
*

A decrease of only 1% in industrial energy use would save the equivalent of about 55 million barrels of oil per year, worth about $1 billion.

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