APC40 First thoughts

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
Tarekith
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APC40 First thoughts

Post by Tarekith » Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:39 am

So after pining all week for an APC after reading all the threads here, I finally broke down and got one today. Luckily I have a Guitar Center that's close by that gets very little business, so they had 5 in stock still. This is just a quick summary of my thoughts after 4 hours or so of use, a full review will be coming later. On that note, here we go:

THE GOOD

- This thing is suprisingly solid for a $399 controller. The knobs and faders are smooth but not loose, the clip grid buttons have just the right play to them (same as an MPK controller if you've played with one of those). The smaller buttons scattered throughout feel a lot cheaper, but not so bad that I'd expect any issues with them. The whole unit feels solid and well-built, without being very super heavy.

- Works great right out of the box. Didn't even need to crack the manual (is there even one?), just plugged it in and got right to work. Very intuitive, shouldn't take long at all to master.

- The clip button LEDs are just the right brightness, not blinding in the dark, but you can still see them in the sunlight (though they could be a little brighter for sunlight uses).

- The balistics on the knobs is perfect, 1 fully turn of the hardware knob equals one full turn of what ever parameter is assigned to it in the software. No more needing to turn a knob 3 full rotations to get the full range out of a parameter. It's amazing how many companies still can't get this right.

- It has a power cord retention device on the back, so you don't need to worry about the powercord getting ripped out by mistake.

- You've probably seen the red box outlining the clips that are represented by the current hardware selection. The good news is that this is not always red, the box color changes depending on what skin you have selected. IE, for my favorite "Light Blue" skin, the box is dark blue. Aesthetically it looks nicer, but is still very easy to see.

- Dedicated buttons to scroll between effects on each track, as well as toggling clip and effects views.


THE BAD

- By default, I don't see any way to limit the range of the faders to stop at 0dB instead of +6dB without over-riding the ability for the faders to track the onscreen track selection.

- The Clip Stop button LEDs are green, I would have though red would make more sense.

- The 4-way Bank Select and the Shift buttons are in a weird location considering how much you use them. I don't think this is really an ideal DJ controller, so I wish they would have left off the tiny crossfader and put these controls at the bottom where they would be easier to access.

- Pan knobs? Does anyone really use these in a performance setting?

- I wish the Track Selection buttons were blue instead of green. There's a lot of green LEDs that can be flashing at once, I think using a different color would help the currently selected track stand out more. As it is, only the solo/cue buttons are blue.

- I haven't figured out how to get that funky initialization or standby LED cycling display that Tom Cosm showed in his unboxing video :)


In general I can definitely see myself LOVING this controller for live use, though perhaps not DJ use where you need to be tweaking parameters (ie, EQ) on multiple tracks at once. In the studio it's actually come in handy a lot more than I expected, the ability to toggle clip and effects views, as well as selected individual effects is very nice, as are the transport and record quantize buttons. To me though, this is primarily a performance controller, and on that front it flat out excels at what it does. Has me thinking of Live in a whole new way, and I've aready got a new live pa prepped and ready to recorded as a result. For the first time in awhile I'm actually looking forward to doing a laptop based live set again.

Jekblad
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Re: APC40 First thoughts

Post by Jekblad » Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:01 am

nice dude.

why no good as DJ controller? that's like my main dig for this thang...
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timothyallan
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Re: APC40 First thoughts

Post by timothyallan » Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:59 am

Well, for starters... How many button presses and knob twists would it take to smoothly fade the bass out of one track and fade in the bass of another track using the APC, without setting up some crazy routing scheme in live. :)

You'd have to select track 1, then select the eq, then turn the one knob, then select track 2 and it's eq (if it wasnt selected), then turn the knob, then back to track 1, then 2, then 1 etc etc..

theque
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Re: APC40 First thoughts

Post by theque » Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:26 am

well said timothy allen, i was hoping that i misunderstood how the controller works, but yes working on two tracks at the same time seems to be a massive problem. and it seems that you cant make custom automap designs. looks like the vcm 600 is the go for me

IP
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Re: APC40 First thoughts

Post by IP » Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:45 am

you can use the 1 or 2 last banks from the "device control" to remap some eq parameters!
again this is not an excellent solution as the layout of the pots is

* * * *
* * * *

so i guess it will be hard to set a classic 3 band eq ..

*
*
*

For 4 tracks it could be

bank 7 for 1 & 2
bank 8 for 3 & 4

(horizontally)
track 1
low.....mid....hi....anything
.*.......*.....*........*
track 2
low mid hi anything
.*.....*....*.......*
Last edited by IP on Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

Gnuus
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Re: APC40 First thoughts

Post by Gnuus » Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:48 am

theque wrote:well said timothy allen, i was hoping that i misunderstood how the controller works, but yes working on two tracks at the same time seems to be a massive problem. and it seems that you cant make custom automap designs. looks like the vcm 600 is the go for me

vcm 600 $899.00 :(
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trevorc
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Re: APC40 First thoughts

Post by trevorc » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:04 am

i'd love to see the apc button matrix combined with inline pots for dj work, it would be great to see an all-in-one controller. with the clip matrix the apc really opens up possibilities for creating sets from loops, samples and chunks of longer tracks but i'd never be able to get my head around changing banks for eq/fx with all those channels available.

theque
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Re: APC40 First thoughts

Post by theque » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:15 am

Gnuus wrote:
theque wrote:well said timothy allen, i was hoping that i misunderstood how the controller works, but yes working on two tracks at the same time seems to be a massive problem. and it seems that you cant make custom automap designs. looks like the vcm 600 is the go for me

vcm 600 $899.00 :(


it is expense, more expensive in Australia, but not being able to eq two tracks at once is not for me. i wish it was designed with this in mind though.

S4racen
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Re: APC40 First thoughts

Post by S4racen » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:27 am

I haven't got one so i'm only chipping in an idea...

Low mid hig + Gain horizontally would work for me, using an old x-session in that format when i go travelling and it works great...

And would putting a utility in each track at -6db work to stop the faders maxing out?

Cheers
D

Hermanus
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Re: APC40 First thoughts

Post by Hermanus » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:45 am

I don't wanna be a bad tongue here but as I seen these days.

If you wanna fully configure the APC40 in the way suits you the best... You'll have to wait for Max4Live!

With it, we will be able to change the behavior of the APC40.

Man it seems that's good to make some money for abes akai and cycling74 this year... And time to get out some hidden money for the Electro music lovers :lol:

just look at the videos >> http://www.akaipro.com/apc40

Well I don't know if it's the good link.

EDIT: Here's the good one for the vids :wink: >> http://www.apc40.com/ <<
Just clic on videos then on APC40 in action.
There are some apc40 linked with max4live .... awesome!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj3kF6dt ... re=related
explained vid>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMKrRoVK ... re=related

What I meant is APC40 will be fully efficient with max4live... there it will be crazy and it seems it would push me to buy this controler
[just need to know price of max4live :mrgreen: ]

It can become a futur alternative to monome [at least for working with ableton]
Last edited by Hermanus on Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

nuperspective
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Re: APC40 First thoughts

Post by nuperspective » Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:34 am

im with the big T here. why on earth are the scene search cursors stuck inbetween the two sets of knobs. surely they should have been at the bottom near the cross fader??

8O
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Re: APC40 First thoughts

Post by 8O » Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:43 am

Cool - this is exactly the user feedback I was looking for. Thanks for the detailed comments, especially the criticisms.
Image

theque
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Re: APC40 First thoughts

Post by theque » Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:50 am

Hermanus wrote:I don't wanna be a bad tongue here but as I seen these days.

If you wanna fully configure the APC40 in the way suits you the best... You'll have to wait for Max4Live!

With it, we will be able to change the behavior of the APC40.

Man it seems that's good to make some money for abes akai and cycling74 this year... And time to get out some hidden money for the Electro music lovers :lol:

just look at the videos >> http://www.akaipro.com/apc40

Well I don't know if it's the good link.

EDIT: Here's the good one for the vids :wink: >> http://www.apc40.com/ <<
Just clic on videos then on APC40 in action.
There are some apc40 linked with max4live .... awesome!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj3kF6dt ... re=related
explained vid>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMKrRoVK ... re=related

What I meant is APC40 will be fully efficient with max4live... there it will be crazy and it seems it would push me to buy this controler
[just need to know price of max4live :mrgreen: ]

It can become a futur alternative to monome [at least for working with ableton]
i do really understand what you are saying, but that all seems too complicated for me plus the mystery amount of extra cash and time spent trying to understand all the max stuff, i like the clip matrix but i think the rest is not for me.

Tarekith
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Re: APC40 First thoughts

Post by Tarekith » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:59 pm

If you didn't mind losing the send/pan knobs, you could easily map those to EQ on two different tracks, while still retaining the macro knob control of the lower 8 knobs. I think that's likely a fair compromise, as how many DJs use sends or pan when playing live compared to EQ?

But yeah, if you want a traditional DJ style controller, the APC is not for you. But really though that's also the exact same thing that makes it so cool too, the fac that it IS laid out differently and in a way that makes more sense for all the non-DJ users.

And some of the things I listed in THE BAD column are really more like wishlists than criticisms. If I was to add one more, I'd love to see a LCD scribble strip at the top of the clip grid. It's cool having all your clips right there on the grid, but in a full set you'd still need to maybe look at the laptop screen to see where in the grid you are. Long shot I know :)

hoffman2k
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Re: APC40 First thoughts

Post by hoffman2k » Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:18 pm

Tarekith wrote:It's cool having all your clips right there on the grid, but in a full set you'd still need to maybe look at the laptop screen to see where in the grid you are. Long shot I know :)
Not really. Don't count out the Live API. If it works, it works..
It won't be rocket science to get whatever you want displayed on an LCD(s) and velcro it to the APC or a monome.
Plenty of solutions, but they all fall under "If you want something done right, you gotta DIY".

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