PD vs Max/MSP/Jitter for visuals?
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PD vs Max/MSP/Jitter for visuals?
Obviously, the price (and the source) of PureData are influential here, but I've got student discount, so Max/MSP isn't that big of a buy for me...looking at interface quality mostly, as well as ease of use and possible known issues with one over the other when it comes to video output, quality, overall controller compatibility, and advanced FSUppedness for visual output and programming. I would try the Max demo, but feel that I couldn't figure enough out in the demo time allotted (I know I could get the 9 month license as well, but still, if the consensus is that PD is better, I'd rather not spend the dough).
Some video examples would be nice, if anyone can point me in the right direction (I searched google already...the stack of results was less than fun to go through).
Also, interested in generative visuals, fft/frequency analysis for visual manipulation, that sort of thing...I know that's sort of a broad description, and I know that some people take it so far as to get a doctorate in exactly that material, but I'm interested, and want to start off right.
If you post youtubes or links, please at least tell me what these people are using (I realize that many of these people will be very advanced in skill, but, again, looking to start off right).
Thanks!
EDIT: Mac user here, so unfortunately, VVVV is not an option.
Some video examples would be nice, if anyone can point me in the right direction (I searched google already...the stack of results was less than fun to go through).
Also, interested in generative visuals, fft/frequency analysis for visual manipulation, that sort of thing...I know that's sort of a broad description, and I know that some people take it so far as to get a doctorate in exactly that material, but I'm interested, and want to start off right.
If you post youtubes or links, please at least tell me what these people are using (I realize that many of these people will be very advanced in skill, but, again, looking to start off right).
Thanks!
EDIT: Mac user here, so unfortunately, VVVV is not an option.
Last edited by last man on earth on Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PD vs Max/MSP/Jitter for visuals?
Does PD even do visuals and video?
.m
.m
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Re: PD vs Max/MSP/Jitter for visuals?
Lo-Fi Massahkah wrote:Does PD even do visuals and video?
.m
supposedly with Gem you could more or less do wht Jitter does. Never tried it, and my pd experience is rather limited so i don't know first hand.Lo-Fi Massahkah wrote:Does PD even do visuals and video?
.m
http://gem.iem.at/
@ last man on earth
Jitter is great for video, shaders, Pretty good with OpenGL stuff.
Do you code at all? Processing is free and really powerful for graphics and animations.
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Re: PD vs Max/MSP/Jitter for visuals?
Yes, GEM-- the poor man's Jitter. I'm not too experienced with Gem to give a decent point of view on it.Lo-Fi Massahkah wrote:Does PD even do visuals and video?
.m
You should be able to decide if Max is for youwith a month long, no limitations demo. PD is not as pretty as Max. Functions are basically the same. PD documentation is adequate if you have an inclination for experimenting and trial and error. Max documentation is better. The pure data forum is frequented by knowledgeable chaps but most are using either Macs or Linux, so windows isn't PD friendly. I've been tinkering with pd and I would get Max if I could afford it. The price seems a bit steep, though.last man on earth wrote:Obviously, the price (and the source) of PureData are influential here, but I've got student discount, so Max/MSP isn't that big of a buy for me...looking at interface quality mostly, as well as ease of use and possible known issues with one over the other when it comes to video output, quality, overall controller compatibility, and advanced FSUppedness for visual output and programming. I would try the Max demo, but feel that I couldn't figure enough out in the demo time allotted
My $699 for ya. I'll take that in Max/Msp/Jitter, thanks
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Re: PD vs Max/MSP/Jitter for visuals?
I'm not a programmer to that extent - a fair amount of html/webwork, but nothing to fancy.
I did look at Processing, though, and it definitely looks interesting, on par with the stuff I've seen from Gem.
Honestly, I'm biased toward Max/MSP/Jitter because of the new improvements, M4L/Live Extended, and that I actually went to a tiny Max/MSP conference a few years ago in SF - I got to meet Andrew Benson and Gregory Taylor, super nice guys. But, I have to say that I'm really more interested in the visual side of things - there are enough audio-based patches out there for both PD and Max that I really wouldn't need to program something new - I'm looking to incorporate visuals into my thing, and want them to stand out/be stranger than your typical VJ stuff. I really dig the generative/fft based stuff that I've seen, moreso than the random hodgepodge of video clips out of most VJ's....With the Max 5 student discount putting the price at $250, that's real reasonable, and I do hear incredibly good things about Jitter in regard to the results I'm looking for.
I did look at Processing, though, and it definitely looks interesting, on par with the stuff I've seen from Gem.
Honestly, I'm biased toward Max/MSP/Jitter because of the new improvements, M4L/Live Extended, and that I actually went to a tiny Max/MSP conference a few years ago in SF - I got to meet Andrew Benson and Gregory Taylor, super nice guys. But, I have to say that I'm really more interested in the visual side of things - there are enough audio-based patches out there for both PD and Max that I really wouldn't need to program something new - I'm looking to incorporate visuals into my thing, and want them to stand out/be stranger than your typical VJ stuff. I really dig the generative/fft based stuff that I've seen, moreso than the random hodgepodge of video clips out of most VJ's....With the Max 5 student discount putting the price at $250, that's real reasonable, and I do hear incredibly good things about Jitter in regard to the results I'm looking for.
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Re: PD vs Max/MSP/Jitter for visuals?
i've made some visual performance with pure data and gem ( video sampling and manipulation in realtime )
http://www.pixelache.ac/2007/democracy- ... telepunch/
http://impala.utopia.free.fr/travaux/?id=49
and it can works great even it is not as polished as max/msp
HK
http://www.pixelache.ac/2007/democracy- ... telepunch/
http://impala.utopia.free.fr/travaux/?id=49
and it can works great even it is not as polished as max/msp
HK
Re: PD vs Max/MSP/Jitter for visuals?
Yes ... if you are only into the visual side of things, I would heartily recommend VVVV
blackboab
http://www.youtube.com/theblackboab
http://www.youtube.com/theblackboab
Re: PD vs Max/MSP/Jitter for visuals?
blackboab wrote:Yes ... if you are only into the visual side of things, I would heartily recommend VVVV
...WRONG... VVVV also hosts VSTs now (!!!!)...
you can do some pretty crazy stuff with audio there as well...
Re: PD vs Max/MSP/Jitter for visuals?
yes VVVV can handle audio ... but still very much geared towards video installations ...
Either way it is a very, very, very, very nice toolkit
by the way 3dot .... do u know if the latest build can handle AISO these days???
Either way it is a very, very, very, very nice toolkit
by the way 3dot .... do u know if the latest build can handle AISO these days???
blackboab
http://www.youtube.com/theblackboab
http://www.youtube.com/theblackboab
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Re: PD vs Max/MSP/Jitter for visuals?
We did a course in Pd at Uni last semester. Having seen and worked with that fairly extensively, and now having seen Max, I would go for Max. The GUI and extra bits n pieces here and there make it worth the money IMO.
JC
JC
Re: PD vs Max/MSP/Jitter for visuals?
...havn't used it in quite some time (years ...) but I stay in touch...blackboab wrote:yes VVVV can handle audio ... but still very much geared towards video installations ...
Either way it is a very, very, very, very nice toolkit
by the way 3dot .... do u know if the latest build can handle AISO these days???
I don't think it supports ASIO....
but other than DirectX...
it has a "kernel streaming" option which supposedly eliminates latency issues...
hadn't tried it yet...
Re: PD vs Max/MSP/Jitter for visuals?
from VVVV site :
"reclock
http://reclock.free.fr/
This free tool installs a kernelstreaming directshow renderer, which can be selected from vvvvs AudioOut (DShow9).
In the reclock configuration don't forget to select the "Kernel Streaming" audio interface for the soundcard you want to use. Like this you get low latency like with ASIO drivers.
"
"reclock
http://reclock.free.fr/
This free tool installs a kernelstreaming directshow renderer, which can be selected from vvvvs AudioOut (DShow9).
In the reclock configuration don't forget to select the "Kernel Streaming" audio interface for the soundcard you want to use. Like this you get low latency like with ASIO drivers.
"
Re: PD vs Max/MSP/Jitter for visuals?
^^^
Tnxs ... I should look into that
Tnxs ... I should look into that
blackboab
http://www.youtube.com/theblackboab
http://www.youtube.com/theblackboab
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Re: PD vs Max/MSP/Jitter for visuals?
Well, PD is free, so the question is whether or not you want to buy Max/MSP/Jitter, isn't it?
PD, as a programming language, is more developed than Max: data structures stand out as a particular difference.
However, as a development environment, Max 5 is definitely smoother and easier - it feels a lot more modern.
Jitter's main advantage over GEM is the years of development, and the documentation. Also somewhat better for working with OpenGL and shaders, though this is changing.
Max has a number of extensions, like the Max Toolbar or Jamoma, that go a long way to shortening the learning curve.
I would go ahead and get Max, since you can get a student price. Learn Max using all the various tutorials and the great documentation. Then, get PD and spend some time exploring the differences. You might find that you'll want to use PD for specific projects, maybe based on things like the visual data structures it supports.
PD, as a programming language, is more developed than Max: data structures stand out as a particular difference.
However, as a development environment, Max 5 is definitely smoother and easier - it feels a lot more modern.
Jitter's main advantage over GEM is the years of development, and the documentation. Also somewhat better for working with OpenGL and shaders, though this is changing.
Max has a number of extensions, like the Max Toolbar or Jamoma, that go a long way to shortening the learning curve.
I would go ahead and get Max, since you can get a student price. Learn Max using all the various tutorials and the great documentation. Then, get PD and spend some time exploring the differences. You might find that you'll want to use PD for specific projects, maybe based on things like the visual data structures it supports.