ot : RACISM...

[DrXparaMental]

Scott, it's VERY important to stress that the reason why illegal immigration does not work in a good way, is because of the system in the United States that it's taking place in. Sure, there are most definitely a great number of these people that should NOT be here, but there are just as many, maybe more, of those illegal status immigrants that would be a great benefit to this country if only they chose to do so the lame way you presently have to in order to keep from being a detraction to the bigger picture. I realize it's a trick bag Scott, but that's not because I am a racist, it's because of the system being managed so poorly and let go in typical capitalist pig fashion.

What you wrote above, for me, is a more cogent and less vitriolic way to phrase your case. It takes issue with the system rather than demonizing the individuals who get caught up in the systems darker corners. There will always be people who will take advantage of a system, but there needs to be a more thoughtful and reasoned approach to addressing the issue of why people are coming here. It doesn't serve anyone's purpose to demonize these people in an absolute manner. There are many variable that need to be considered.

If you mean by the term "Demonize" = To declare as evil, other than a criminal element, which is one of the real considerations, I have certainly never done that. But if you mean by "demonize" to stress the importance of stopping illegal immigration, then yes, it assuredly needs to be stopped.

I'm sorry, but it does seem very negligent to a greater extent to come to this country without proper residential arrangements. It does seem irresponsible. It also smacks of a great level of certain arrogant disrespect for legitimate naturalization.


Well, what are those hidden variables? (in a general sense)

[DrXparaMental]

What you wrote above, for me, is a more cogent and less vitriolic way to phrase your case. It takes issue with the system rather than demonizing the individuals who get caught up in the systems darker corners. There will always be people who will take advantage of a system, but there needs to be a more thoughtful and reasoned approach to addressing the issue of why people are coming here. It doesn't serve anyone's purpose to demonize these people in an absolute manner. There are many variable that need to be considered.

I agree, but then by this logic you would have to say that one should not demonize the employers who hire illegals nor the fat cats at the very tip top who gain from it all. After all they are all benefiting in some way from the "system." Aren't these other two groups therefore just as caught up in other "dark corners" of the system?

People show their bias when they only want to go after one of these groups. It's the South Park thing with Liberal Douche on one side saying, "It's the corporations being all.... corporation-y!!" and Redneck Conservative on the other saying, "!!!!"

I'm sure glad I haven't got a clue what Deytukarejaahbss is cause I was starten to afearin that I might be just a weighin' in on that thar redneck side of the chew pouche.

all kidding aside, I know who could *get* this whole illegal immigrant thing taken care of and quick. Does anyone know Jeff Dunham's email address or phone number? I am sure as hell certain that Walter could sort this shit out once and for all. Look what he did for the Jalapeño.

[H20nly]

Okay Doc,
I didn't get back to you Friday because I was way too busy at work... This weekend was make music weekend not log on to the music maker website and type time. I was pounding bass strings not keys.

@ Tone Deft I really really really see what you meant now. Lesson learned.

Care to elaborate? Seeing how it's kind of "inside" outside type thing.

What I meant here had nothing to do with anything "inside" or hidden. My first post to the thread was on page 3. I must have been typing it while Tone Deft was making his first appearance as well. He warned:

- never get involved in hot button issues on the Ableton forum.

I missed it as I was posting. Perhaps seeing his post earlier may have steered me clear as I actually chose to share something about myself that was on topic. Meanwhile, this thread was beginning to roll off road style.

On pages 3, 5 and 6 you will see how he warned about and against OT and people arguing etc. with 3dot. I also mention a thread I started previously in a post @3dot.

Illegal immigration DOES NOT FUCKING WORK. Got that?

Seems like its working just fine.

This thread is out of control.

Seems like it's working fine to me.

touché

I thought it would be an interesting topic with so many people from different countries on the forum. (1.) Instead, its mostly a bunch of name calling and statistics from a bunch of agencies that couldn't possibly know how much undocumented workers cost because they're "undocumented". Its like guessing what kind of day we're having with your eyes closed. You can only get so close.

(2.)Please don't reply to post if you intend on dragging me into this immigration issue. I don't really care that much. I just can't help myself. I posted very early on in this thread when I thought it was simply about racism. If I've learned anything from this its that there is nothing simple about it. (3.) John Gordon was even going to shoot me because he actually thought I am a racist. I was attempting to contribute. At this point there is nothing more to contribute.

1. So that means that Leisuremuffin's posted statistics were all bullshit concerning his IRS counter tactics? Goody! This means he yet may in fact have to relinquish his coveted golden douche bag friendship bracelet.

2. Forgive me H2Only, but isn't this sort of a cheap way of "getting the last word on the topic" type of response to the meat of the very discussion that you're terming "out of control" and basically "name calling"

3. John Gordon's a comical sock troll. Didn't you know that? Not real. Just created to get a rouse.

1) Dunno. Not lookig back. No interest in Golden Douche.

2) No its just that when I click on "View your posts" this thread kept having an orange icon next to it and coming back to the top of the list. As I mentioned, initially I was interested in the topic and where it might go. However, this time I wasn't very interested in the off topic and where it was going. After I posted your above quote it even started to get back on topic with the Texas scenario. The fact is I grew up in Texas and when I saw that dumb shit about how Texas was stolen it actually took a lot of effort on my part to stay out of it (again). I took Texas history (as required by my school district) but its just like the rest of the books on history its HIS-Story. Much like today, I don't think all the people back then were in agreement either. So to say that all the Texas settlers wanted________ or all the Mexican settlers wanted _________ is fuckin stupid. I don't really want to be involved in a derailed off topic flame war spouting statistics with loooooong quotes and fucked up name calling although…

I don't give a rats rosy red ass if your are Tuvan Throat singing Queen from the Mongolian version of New Orleans.

... is some funny shit.

3) I think I'm hip to the alter ego that is John Gordon at this point. Still, whether starving student is misunderstanding my initial point and telling John Gordon to shoot me or someone else is flipping me off, taking sound bite quotes out of context, or any other form of derailing, demeaning or otherwise deconstructive stance that isn't at least funny and meant in jest rather than spite, the point was clouded. I think racism is lame having been a vitim of it despite the fact that my flesh tone defies the All American norm. Sorry I'm getting back on topic.

So there is my long ass post in response to your questions. Honestly though I don't know how you do this for 10, 15, 20 pages. Its way too much work putting all these quotes and shit together. At the end of the day is anyone enlighened? Did anyone change their mind suddenly? Has someone taken a whole new outlook due to the hundreds of quotes, misquotes, facts, opinions, statistic, staHISstics, and the tens of thousands of words spent talking about these issues? Thats why I think that Tone was right even if his way of expressing his point was a little harsh at times. I didn't come into this thread for that though.

To be honest with all the musicians that did chime in on this we should have all got together and made a sick fucking song about racism. Our time would have been better spent. And surely we could have written plenty of lyrics.

Peace.

[hurlingdervish]

racism is bad


[/thread]

[DrXparaMental]

Okay Doc,
I didn't get back to you Friday because I was way too busy at work...

To be honest with all the musicians that did chime in on this we should have all got together and made a sick fucking song about racism. Our time would have been better spent. And surely we could have written plenty of lyrics.

Peace.

"busy", that's me today at work. emboldened above: 100% correct. A total blow hard waste of time with respect to the bickering. I'm guilty. This was not the place so in and of that fact alone, I do apologize.

True Racism is a disgusting thing. I don't think it's understood or properly recognized/diagnosed as such in at least 90% of the cases that are referred to as racism.

That was my point and I did a poor job of seeing that point through because of the illegal immigration flare up.

[stringtapper]

True Racism is a disgusting thing. I don't think it's understood or properly recognized/diagnosed as such in at least 90% of the cases that are referred to as racism.

That was my point and I did a poor job of seeing that point through because of the illegal immigration flare up.

In this sense I would have to say that the illegal immigration topic being brought up was very revealing. It showed how cavalier people can be in accusing someone of racism when that person believes in something that the accuser (erroneously) associates with racism. I would argue that the impulse to jump to those kinds of conclusions are no different than the impulses that drive actual racists to their foolish and destructive conclusions.

[DrXparaMental]

True Racism is a disgusting thing. I don't think it's understood or properly recognized/diagnosed as such in at least 90% of the cases that are referred to as racism.

That was my point and I did a poor job of seeing that point through because of the illegal immigration flare up.

In this sense I would have to say that the illegal immigration topic being brought up was very revealing. It showed how cavalier people can be in accusing someone of racism when that person believes in something that the accuser (erroneously) associates with racism. I would argue that the impulse to jump to those kinds of conclusions are no different than the impulses that drive actual racists to their foolish and destructive conclusions.

Precisely.

[brightonalex]

Quite right. So who was it that first started ranting about immigration, in this thread about racism?!

Oh.

[LoopStationZebra]

[DrXparaMental]

Quite right. So who was it that first started ranting about immigration, in this thread about racism?!

Oh.

I'm NOT going into it, but I will state for the record, your comprehension skills are shit.

[Salty P]

still going strong...

[Minimal Justice System]

[/thread]

[starving student]

don't look over there I said don't look over there, Stop looking over there please, I mean it now I'm getting pissed don't look over there ok I'm begging you no fuck that I'm giving you an order mister don't look over there, please man stop looking right now ok look what do you want do you like money I've got money I'll give you as much as you want just don't look over there, oh shit now look what you made me do man I told you stop looking over there the most important thing to me in this whole damn world is that you stop looooooking.......over .......... there..........!!!!.......damn you racisms overthere and we're not suppose to talk about it shhhh

[b0unce]

Too Long
;
Did Not Read


BTW, americans talkin' about immigration & racism is funny as shit. it's like mongrel dogs trying to eat their own ears and then describing the taste.


HOLLAH!

[H20nly]

Far be it from mongrel Americans to talk about immigration and racism... We should leave that up to professionals like yourself.

You don't want to let this thread die?

Lets roll then - with your hollier than thou style!!! Please share more of your deeply profound insight with us about racism.