OT: Zoloft and anxiety/panic attacks

[b0unce]

Jesus H Christ.

[ngdesign]

i face anxiety attacks, really bad sometimes. I goto the supermarket and all of a sudden i cant breath, go really dizzy, i have to quickly get to an aisle which is emptyand close my eyes and calm down or even run out the store.

[UKRuss]

Bounce. Giver of compassion.

Ethios, any more info. on adrenal fatigue? Any links?

I suffered a racing heart beat situation after a massive all weekend bender when i was 29, had to go to hospital and be put under to have my heart stopped and re-started with those machines you see them using on telly when people have heart attacks.

i thought I was cool when I came round, but days later i had another attack...well i thought it was and I went back to A+E who said i was fine, just a panic attack. i thought christ, at 29???

I never took any meds for the panic, took some for the heart rhythm though, off them now, had two more hospitalisation episodes since.

It is bloody scary.

Anyway i realise now, like you Ethios, massive stress and just a huge amount of adrenaline being pumped round my body from the moment I woke up.

Now i just get infrequent palpitations, but when they're bad i wonder if it'll start another episode and require me to go to hospital again...never fun.

But, on the plus, side I manage it, i deal with it, I am happy, and I am not on meds. so like one of the other guys said, take control of your own happiness!

[robfoster]

Bounce. Giver of compassion.

Ethios, any more info. on adrenal fatigue? Any links?

I suffered a racing heart beat situation after a massive all weekend bender when i was 29, had to go to hospital and be put under to have my heart stopped and re-started with those machines you see them using on telly when people have heart attacks.

i thought I was cool when I came round, but days later i had another attack...well i thought it was and I went back to A+E who said i was fine, just a panic attack. i thought christ, at 29???

I never took any meds for the panic, took some for the heart rhythm though, off them now, had two more hospitalisation episodes since.

It is bloody scary.


Anyway i realise now, like you Ethios, massive stress and just a huge amount of adrenaline being pumped round my body from the moment I woke up.

Now i just get infrequent palpitations, but when they're bad i wonder if it'll start another episode and require me to go to hospital again...never fun.

But, on the plus, side I manage it, i deal with it, I am happy, and I am not on meds. so like one of the other guys said, take control of your own happiness!

Just before 30 was a very dangerous time for me, the realization that i was getting old meant that i thought i had to go even harder at the weekend to prove to myself i wasnt, Bad Move, 29-32 ish was probably my lowest time and i had the most attacks then, i just hope i dont feel the same way when i hit 40 next year!

[UKRuss]

Agreed, I am out of the danger zone as i don't do benders any more. I am 40 now and to be honest, feel more healthy now that I did at 30.

The two other hospitalisations I had was me being silly. One I had been out all night on the lash and then ran (at 3 stone over weight) to catch a train...got on the train and realised what I'd done...quick call to the wife. Pick me up at the station lovek, I need to go to hospital...

Second one same thing, long lunch, too much booze and cigs, ran to catch a bus.

You know the asiest thing would have been to say, OK, I am not going to run for buses/trains anymore...but no, I decided to drink less, smoke less, ride my bike more etc. and now i can run for the bus without worry.

It's ncie to be free from the fear of an attack and the panic attacks that went with them.

It's been a long journey though.

Giving up caffeine was my best move. Felt like a different person almost overnight.

[ethios4]

I don't know a whole lot about adrenal fatigue as I haven't been to a doctor about it yet, and from what I understand it isn't necessarily recognized by mainstream medicine, but it makes a lot of sense to me. You can take a saliva test to find out where your stress hormone levels stand which can help with diagnosing adrenal fatigue. Here's some info on that.

As far as treatment goes, it sounds like lifestyle modification is the only way to go really. Maybe if there was a good source for adrenochrome like in Fear & Loathing!

Glad to hear exercise and lifestyle changes are helping you Russ...I'm working on my changes too. I really think laying off the herb will help me a lot, and I'm about to head off to the gym for exercise.

[ethios4]

Caffeine is such a tricky habit. I feel so tired much of the time so I want caffeine, but that very likely only makes things worse.

Another thing I've been trying to practice is letting go of things that stress me out. Like when I'm driving it gets stressful sometimes because...well its driving in traffic...so now I consciously try to just chill out and remember it doesn't really matter. When you get right down to it, very little actually matters enough to stress about.

[fishmonkey]

if you suffer from anxiety, taking stimulants is a bit daft... even if that burst of energy psyches you up a bit, the way down probably won't be much fun... then you want some kind of depressant to take the edge off... and then... ahhh, uppers and downers...

[UKRuss]

Caffeine is a highly underrated poison. Horrible stuff.

Fishmunky, you're right, but the trick is knowing you're in that situation when you're in it. It's only looking back I realise in what a bad place I actually was.

[aisling]

I don't know a whole lot about adrenal fatigue as I haven't been to a doctor about it yet, and from what I understand it isn't necessarily recognized by mainstream medicine, but it makes a lot of sense to me. You can take a saliva test to find out where your stress hormone levels stand which can help with diagnosing adrenal fatigue. Here's some info on that.

As far as treatment goes, it sounds like lifestyle modification is the only way to go really. Maybe if there was a good source for adrenochrome like in Fear & Loathing!

Glad to hear exercise and lifestyle changes are helping you Russ...I'm working on my changes too. I really think laying off the herb will help me a lot, and I'm about to head off to the gym for exercise.

I am not an MD. I do have many years of anatomy, physiology, neurology and endocrinology study.....
Unless there is a localized pathology (cancer, trauma) "adrenal fatigue" is a more "alternative medicine" diagnosis.....This does nor mean to "discredit the concept," but often what people forget is that the adrenal glands are both modified neurons and part of the endocrine system. So the "root" of the problem would more likely originate either in the hypothalamus or pituitary glands.....
The body is actually much more stronger than we give it "credit" for. The adrenal glands were evolved to accommodate SERIOUS stressors (like running from a saber tooth tiger, or a mob of caveman, or having to walk for 3 days straight with no food in order to find food) yes our modern day lifestyle can be "stressful" and no doubt, we are exposed to many toxins....But unless there is pathology from the get go (weak dna) adrenal glands don't really "fatigue" in the manner that many radical medical professionals would make us think (they are part of a money making machine just like the drug pushing docs......alternative medicine and supplements are almost just as big business as drugs)......
That said and done, the way we eat can tax our organs to the threshold......refined sugars, caffine, excessive alcohol, street drugs, bad air, poor sleep, lack of exercise.....all degrade the efficacy of our organ systems.

[ethios4]

Thanks for the input aisling! I'm defintely wary of the 'adrenal fatigue' concept, but at the same time it fits my experience somewhat. The situation that started this for me wasn't just day-to-day stress or anything, it was monumental stress nonstop for about a year....I'm talking nervous breakdown kind of stress, and I feel like I haven't ever fully recovered. Of course, that level of stress also changed my lifestyle habits....I have slacked off on exercise, self-medicate with ganja, eat poorly, etc.

So the way I see it is that I'll never get a clear answer about adrenal fatigue, and even if I did the prescription would be to eat better, exercise, and lay off the stimulants etc, which is exactly what I should do if adrenal fatigue is not real. Basically either way I need to get my lifestyle in order

And I do agree that alternative medicine is rife with money-making schemes, wishful thinking, poor reasoning, poor research etc. My wife worked at a health food store for many years and I researched a lot of what they peddle there and found most of it to be worthless. Like 'grapefruit seed extract' which has no antibiotic properties except for the industrial contaminants that are a by-product of it's very chemical based manufacturing process!

[aisling]

Thanks for the input aisling! I'm defintely wary of the 'adrenal fatigue' concept, but at the same time it fits my experience somewhat. The situation that started this for me wasn't just day-to-day stress or anything, it was monumental stress nonstop for about a year....I'm talking nervous breakdown kind of stress, and I feel like I haven't ever fully recovered. Of course, that level of stress also changed my lifestyle habits....I have slacked off on exercise, self-medicate with ganja, eat poorly, etc.

So the way I see it is that I'll never get a clear answer about adrenal fatigue, and even if I did the prescription would be to eat better, exercise, and lay off the stimulants etc, which is exactly what I should do if adrenal fatigue is not real. Basically either way I need to get my lifestyle in order

And I do agree that alternative medicine is rife with money-making schemes, wishful thinking, poor reasoning, poor research etc. My wife worked at a health food store for many years and I researched a lot of what they peddle there and found most of it to be worthless. Like 'grapefruit seed extract' which has no antibiotic properties except for the industrial contaminants that are a by-product of it's very chemical based manufacturing process!

I totally agree with what you're saying. The stress of having kids coupled with a failed business and realizing that after 15 years of dreaming, practicing, performing, recording......music is and will only "realistically" be a hobby (balding 40 year old men don't seem to have much branding power for music fans 13-22) has taken me to a dark place for a few years.

Like you, self medication of caffeine and weed have taken me to places I did not want to go.....
While I seem to be getting a handle on the weed thing, caffeine is still ravaging me full force...... (although I did smoke some weed after almost a year off, and the first time it was "great", which led to thinking I could do it again...and then the same psychology of doubt, lethargy, insecurity, coupled with false ambition, etc, manifested like I had never taken the time off......)

[DrXparaMental]

Thanks for the input aisling! I'm defintely wary of the 'adrenal fatigue' concept, but at the same time it fits my experience somewhat. The situation that started this for me wasn't just day-to-day stress or anything, it was monumental stress nonstop for about a year....I'm talking nervous breakdown kind of stress, and I feel like I haven't ever fully recovered. Of course, that level of stress also changed my lifestyle habits....I have slacked off on exercise, self-medicate with ganja, eat poorly, etc.

So the way I see it is that I'll never get a clear answer about adrenal fatigue, and even if I did the prescription would be to eat better, exercise, and lay off the stimulants etc, which is exactly what I should do if adrenal fatigue is not real. Basically either way I need to get my lifestyle in order

And I do agree that alternative medicine is rife with money-making schemes, wishful thinking, poor reasoning, poor research etc. My wife worked at a health food store for many years and I researched a lot of what they peddle there and found most of it to be worthless. Like 'grapefruit seed extract' which has no antibiotic properties except for the industrial contaminants that are a by-product of it's very chemical based manufacturing process!

I totally agree with what you're saying. The stress of having kids coupled with a failed business and realizing that after 15 years of dreaming, practicing, performing, recording......music is and will only "realistically" be a hobby (balding 40 year old men don't seem to have much branding power for music fans 13-22) has taken me to a dark place for a few years.

Like you, self medication of caffeine and weed have taken me to places I did not want to go.....
While I seem to be getting a handle on the weed thing, caffeine is still ravaging me full force...... (although I did smoke some weed after almost a year off, and the first time it was "great", which led to thinking I could do it again...and then the same psychology of doubt, lethargy, insecurity, coupled with false ambition, etc, manifested like I had never taken the time off......)

Aren't we human beings funny? I know from experience because I am both an alcoholic and drug addict. At the root of my troubles, it's my thinking that gets me into trouble, not so much the substances themselves. It's the way I mentally react to them. The number one pathological thinking disorder that I am vulnerable to is the belief set in motion that I can do the same thing over and over and expect different results each time. When I combine this thinking flow with certain decisions, pain and suffering follow.

[aisling]

Thanks for the input aisling! I'm defintely wary of the 'adrenal fatigue' concept, but at the same time it fits my experience somewhat. The situation that started this for me wasn't just day-to-day stress or anything, it was monumental stress nonstop for about a year....I'm talking nervous breakdown kind of stress, and I feel like I haven't ever fully recovered. Of course, that level of stress also changed my lifestyle habits....I have slacked off on exercise, self-medicate with ganja, eat poorly, etc.

So the way I see it is that I'll never get a clear answer about adrenal fatigue, and even if I did the prescription would be to eat better, exercise, and lay off the stimulants etc, which is exactly what I should do if adrenal fatigue is not real. Basically either way I need to get my lifestyle in order

And I do agree that alternative medicine is rife with money-making schemes, wishful thinking, poor reasoning, poor research etc. My wife worked at a health food store for many years and I researched a lot of what they peddle there and found most of it to be worthless. Like 'grapefruit seed extract' which has no antibiotic properties except for the industrial contaminants that are a by-product of it's very chemical based manufacturing process!

I totally agree with what you're saying. The stress of having kids coupled with a failed business and realizing that after 15 years of dreaming, practicing, performing, recording......music is and will only "realistically" be a hobby (balding 40 year old men don't seem to have much branding power for music fans 13-22) has taken me to a dark place for a few years.

Like you, self medication of caffeine and weed have taken me to places I did not want to go.....
While I seem to be getting a handle on the weed thing, caffeine is still ravaging me full force...... (although I did smoke some weed after almost a year off, and the first time it was "great", which led to thinking I could do it again...and then the same psychology of doubt, lethargy, insecurity, coupled with false ambition, etc, manifested like I had never taken the time off......)

Aren't we human beings funny? I know from experience because I am both an alcoholic and drug addict. At the root of my troubles, it's my thinking that gets me into trouble, not so much the substances themselves. It's the way I mentally react to them. The number one pathological thinking disorder that I am vulnerable to is the belief set in motion that I can do the same thing over and over and expect different results each time. When I combine this thinking flow with certain decisions, pain and suffering follow.

quoted for truth

[ghast]

As far as recreational drug use goes, the ONLY thing that ever gave me an attack was weed. I used to do large amounts of ecstasy, acid, ketamine and ghb, without any real effect on my depression or anxiety (nothing but fun). If I smoke too much pot, beyond a certain point, my attention involuntarily turns 100% inward and I start tweaking out over the slightest sensation in my chest or head, and I have to concentrate to breathe. This leads to the full blown 'I'm dying' feeling. As a die hard music fanatic, I still smoke pot all the time, but I need to know when to say when. Too much of it and I'm in for a horrible time. Some would say that it's stupid to continue smoking, but I kind of have it down to science now. I can get buzzed, and it still beats the hell out of alcohol, and doesn't carry the ridiculous legal penalty of ghb. Around here, the cops all but shoot you on site for having a bottle of G.