Lives sound engine argument again ...

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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evon
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Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by evon » Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:33 pm

Johnisfaster wrote:
evon wrote:Every other DAW I have listened to sounds better than Live.
And then you looked at the numbers and realized they were exactly the same.
Yes and that is why I am confused. Why dosent Live impact the ear with that fat clean sounding tone. Like Cubase, Reason etc. Why?
However,in my book Live is by far the No1 DAW. It would just be great though, if it gave me that perception like the rest.
fe real!

evon
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Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by evon » Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:42 pm

silveriofunk wrote:
UKRuss wrote:No. Just no. Not again. For gods sake stop the thread.
+1
Why? This is not a personal attack..but with this type of thinking we would still be living in caves. Why question what is outside..we are comfortable with what we have inside..you know.

Live can, and I know they will, do much better than where it is now. However, without the critics like us there would be no need for them to spend time (and money) on improvements.

Sorry, but I am still not satisfied with my product. In addition, we need to keep reminding the Abes about this constantly.
fe real!

UKRuss
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Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by UKRuss » Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:50 pm

It's just pointless.

Be unhappy with your product becasue it doesn't work properly, crashing and the like, yes fine.

But Live does not have an inferior sound engine, or in fact sound any worse than any other DAW, this has been proven time and again.

Hence, please stop.

My suspicion is that those who make inferior sounding music in Live simply lack the production skills to make their music sound good enough.

Old adage, bad workmen blame their tools.

ethios4
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Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by ethios4 » Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:04 pm

evon wrote:Why dosent Live impact the ear with that fat clean sounding tone. Like Cubase, Reason etc. Why?
It does when I use it.

silveriofunk
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Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by silveriofunk » Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:25 pm

evon wrote:
silveriofunk wrote:
UKRuss wrote:No. Just no. Not again. For gods sake stop the thread.
+1
Why? This is not a personal attack..but with this type of thinking we would still be living in caves. Why question what is outside..we are comfortable with what we have inside..you know.

Live can, and I know they will, do much better than where it is now. However, without the critics like us there would be no need for them to spend time (and money) on improvements.

Sorry, but I am still not satisfied with my product. In addition, we need to keep reminding the Abes about this constantly.

this is not about that man, forget about the caves..... i use both live and traktor and i have complained before here that when djing or playing live if someone before you comes using traktor or vynil or whatever and you use live they'll have the volume at 5 and you will probably need it at 9 in order to compensate and so that people hear at the same volume but i'm just talking volume here, since i really cannot hear a difference in the quality, like you obviously can

By all means, complain if you're not satisfied... i know i do

but since this thread comes around every so often it is just a bit boring now since no one has been able to prove tha Live is inferior...

KrisM
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Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by KrisM » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:29 pm

Even IF Live had a somehow inferior sound engine... people have been using it to make great sounding music for how long, now? How much great sounding music was written on "less capable" software other than live in the past?

Pick DAW software that suits your ideal work-flow and use/feature needs, and then MASTER IT and your craft.

The average person listening to your music won't know the difference, and they won't care. Just as long as the music is good :mrgreen:
I don't 'produce.' I write music.

knotkranky
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Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by knotkranky » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:00 pm

evon is right. Live "does" have a different :) sound, but it's because of its warp modes and i'm sure few use Live without warp. Kinda pointless right. Most of us Live because of warp. Or at least you can say the company was built on it. Session view too.

It's the sum of its parts and not any "one" thing that makes Live great. Please, lets not hammer the guy for wanting better quality. Hammer abes for better warp and some high quality off-line or rendered stretching. Abes isn't perfect and they can do better. Keep pushing evon, but go after what abes needs to do about it. They need to throw way more cycles at warp, offer easy off-line alternatives or maybe offer a switch that shifts computer cycles between "studio mode" and a "Live PA mode"

SubFunk
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Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by SubFunk » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:04 pm

Hammer abes for better warp
plus a million... warping is a great concept, the algos in live are not great.
*** Image GAFM ***

polyslax
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Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by polyslax » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:18 pm

At times like this I enjoy browsing this page:

http://www.ilikejam.org/blog/audio/audiophile.html
Image Image

leisuremuffin
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Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by leisuremuffin » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:44 pm

knotkranky wrote:evon is right. Live "does" have a different :) sound, but it's because of its warp modes and i'm sure few use Live without warp. Kinda pointless right. Most of us Live because of warp. Or at least you can say the company was built on it. Session view too.

It's the sum of its parts and not any "one" thing that makes Live great. Please, lets not hammer the guy for wanting better quality. Hammer abes for better warp and some high quality off-line or rendered stretching. Abes isn't perfect and they can do better. Keep pushing evon, but go after what abes needs to do about it. They need to throw way more cycles at warp, offer easy off-line alternatives or maybe offer a switch that shifts computer cycles between "studio mode" and a "Live PA mode"

no matter what software you choose to time stretch audio with, it will always change the sound quality of that audio.



"better" warping won't make warping neutral. You should know enough to understand that.



And no, i don't think that using live without warp is pointless. I don't see any reason to use warping while making music in live unless you're after using it as an effect. Live does a lot more than just rough real time time stretching.



and as you know, it's been proven over and over again that warping does nothing to you audio when its at orig tempo unless you use either of the complex warp modes.



.lm.
TimeableFloat ???S?e?n?d?I?n?f?o

Tone Deft
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Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by Tone Deft » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:51 pm

yeah, evon the power user. :roll: what he knows about DAWs you can fit on the back of a matchbook. just another n00b with a bullshit opinion. he's had plenty of time to demonstrate any DAW knowledge but I haven't seen it.

sorry evon, you have an OK personality but if you want to sling the shit you'd better have the ammo. you're firing blanks. no cred points.

all DAWs sound more than good enough for 99% of what people use them for. as if peoples' production chops are good enough that this kind of bullshit matters.


this is what guys do with ANY hobby, cars, motorcycles, surfing, biking, ANYTHING. we talk shit about what the other guy uses because what we use is teh shit.

I'm not reading 4 pages of this crap, has there been any real proof posted or is this just n00b chest beating bullshit?
"Obsession is a great substitute for talent." - Steve Martin on learning the banjo

Dell Inspiron 15 7000, Live 10.1, Win10 Home, Edirol UA101, APC40, Remote SL, SPD-SX, mic, POD500HDX, JX305, Nova
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Martyn
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Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by Martyn » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:53 pm

UKRuss wrote:bad workmen blame their tools.
While a good workman can build a perfectly serviceable apartment block using nothing more than a lighter, a dirty teaspoon and a short length of rubber hose. I saw it happen, live on Blue Peter, way back in '64, or was that a Brian Adams song?

ethios4
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Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by ethios4 » Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:06 pm

knotkranky wrote:evon is right. Live "does" have a different :) sound, but it's because of its warp modes and i'm sure few use Live without warp.
Actually I've turned on many many people to Live who use it exclusively without warp. It is so much more intuitive and easy to learn than cubase/logic/sonar etc, and yet more than powerful enough for regular users. I'm talking guitar players, bedroom rock producers, vocalists. I use it exclusively because my workflow is very creative and fast, unlike any other software out there....it has very little to do with warp.

As for the argument that people think Live's sound sucks because they inadvertently have warp turned on, or don't understand that warping degrades sound quality...anyone that's that dumb audio-wise is almost certainly not qualified to be distinguishing between DAWs based on imperceptible differences in mix engines, if any such differences even exist. Those kinds would probably get a better sound from Live by changing the GUI color.
Last edited by ethios4 on Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Martyn
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Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by Martyn » Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:07 pm

ethios4 wrote:Those kinds would probably get a better sound from Live by changing the GUI color.
Light brown definitely sounds lighter and warmer tho.

ethios4
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Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by ethios4 » Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:15 pm

I've been requesting hot pink and green for ages now so I can finally start working on some 80's tunes....no luck!

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