LESS DAW FEATURES!!

[jlgrimes]

I was more referring to a number of people I seem to come across who show me these sets they've been working on and it's all laid out in arrange as if it was LogicBase and they havent even got a clip in session - it boggles my mind actually

The advantages of Arrange View recording I see are:

1. Automation is waay easier to do. Don't have to worry about CCs and what not.

2. When working on long sections > 4 bars, punching in and out parts is very easy to do in Arrange View. I haven't found a quick way to do this in Session because to punch in Session, you have to figure out how to get all clips to start like 2 or 3 bars in the loop simultaneously which is not easy to do in Session but painless in Arrange.

3. Midi recording in Arrange can be more flexible and quicker than Session View because you don't have to worry about tweaking loop lengths of clips, and if you do it is much easier because you can consolidate multiple clips to set loop length for session view. Honestly for this task, Session View kind of sucks.

4. Recording things like vocals are much easier to manage.

5. ArrangeView also has good sample chopping tools.

I find a combination of both is the best.

ArrangeView is a great place to create multiple empty midi clips and quickly set them to whatever loop length you prefer simultaneously and drag them to Session.

For spontaneity, Session view can't be beat, but if I have to punch-in something, it would be better to drag all clips to Arrange and punch in there and reimport back into Session. No easy way to do this in Session but to start scene and wait, wait, wait for your punch in time. for 4 bar loops or less this wait time isn't a big issue but the wait would be horrid for a 16 bar section.

When I need to do automation, I just use Arrange View.

Coming from Reason, I appreciate Linear recording but loop recording in ArrangeView just don't cut it for me though and Session flows much better.

[forge]

I was more referring to a number of people I seem to come across who show me these sets they've been working on and it's all laid out in arrange as if it was LogicBase and they havent even got a clip in session - it boggles my mind actually

The advantages of Arrange View recording I see are:

1. Automation is waay easier to do. Don't have to worry about CCs and what not.

2. When working on long sections > 4 bars, punching in and out parts is very easy to do in Arrange View. I haven't found a quick way to do this in Session because to punch in Session, you have to figure out how to get all clips to start like 2 or 3 bars in the loop simultaneously which is not easy to do in Session but painless in Arrange.

3. Midi recording in Arrange can be more flexible and quicker than Session View because you don't have to worry about tweaking loop lengths of clips, and if you do it is much easier because you can consolidate multiple clips to set loop length for session view. Honestly for this task, Session View kind of sucks.

4. Recording things like vocals are much easier to manage.

5. ArrangeView also has good sample chopping tools.

I find a combination of both is the best.

ArrangeView is a great place to create multiple empty midi clips and quickly set them to whatever loop length you prefer simultaneously and drag them to Session.

For spontaneity, Session view can't be beat, but if I have to punch-in something, it would be better to drag all clips to Arrange and punch in there and reimport back into Session. No easy way to do this in Session but to start scene and wait, wait, wait for your punch in time. for 4 bar loops or less this wait time isn't a big issue but the wait would be horrid for a 16 bar section.

When I need to do automation, I just use Arrange View.

Coming from Reason, I appreciate Linear recording but loop recording in ArrangeView just don't cut it for me though and Session flows much better.

that post was a while ago now, but again, the point was more about why would people choose Live if they only want the arrange view? I mean sure there are plenty of ways Live is better than the others, but I was more meaning that Session view is it's biggest difference and I would have thought Live would not be first choice if you only want that kind of Linear arrangement

I mean - people who get Live, only use arrange view and then complain that it doesn't have all the features that all the other DAWs have

[jlgrimes]

that post was a while ago now, but again, the point was more about why would people choose Live if they only want the arrange view? I mean sure there are plenty of ways Live is better than the others, but I was more meaning that Session view is it's biggest difference and I would have thought Live would not be first choice if you only want that kind of Linear arrangement

I mean - people who get Live, only use arrange view and then complain that it doesn't have all the features that all the other DAWs have

Live still has other goodies independent of Session View such as,

1. Quick and easy warping. Other DAWs might have more power but Live's seem easier to understand.

2. Stable Audio Engine. Live doesn't crash like other programs I work with.

3. Being able to go to markers on the beat of the launch quantize section. This puts Session View style sequencing in the arrangeview. Most other DAWs don't do this.

4. Drum Racks.

5. Chopping of Samples.

6. Built-in Simpler and Impulse (which caters to hip hop/electronica crowds).

7. Dead simple waveform editing functions for looping samples.

8. Built-in Lessons.

9. Built-in Manual.

10. The only DAW program whose demo actually makes you want to go out and buy the program. Most other DAWs demos are too restrictive and offers very little tutorials or help for learning the interface.



It's arrangeview does need improvement (SessionView does too). Live's arrangement view has a few benefits that I like over Sonar like easier horizontal zooming, follow mode but some areas of its arrangement view are behind and it is understandable it put most of its energy on the unique Session View.

My point though is Live must not get too complacent with it's Arrangement View. All it would take is for another DAW like Cubase/Logic to seriously incorporate SessionView style sequencing, which would be a huge jab at Live, because then its Arrangement View would have to be brought up to par quickly.

[Machinesworking]

that post was a while ago now, but again, the point was more about why would people choose Live if they only want the arrange view? I mean sure there are plenty of ways Live is better than the others, but I was more meaning that Session view is it's biggest difference and I would have thought Live would not be first choice if you only want that kind of Linear arrangement

I mean - people who get Live, only use arrange view and then complain that it doesn't have all the features that all the other DAWs have

Live still has other goodies independent of Session View such as,

1. Quick and easy warping. Other DAWs might have more power but Live's seem easier to understand.

2. Stable Audio Engine. Live doesn't crash like other programs I work with.

3. Being able to go to markers on the beat of the launch quantize section. This puts Session View style sequencing in the arrangeview. Most other DAWs don't do this.

4. Drum Racks.

5. Chopping of Samples.

6. Built-in Simpler and Impulse (which caters to hip hop/electronica crowds).

7. Dead simple waveform editing functions for looping samples.

8. Built-in Lessons.

9. Built-in Manual.

10. The only DAW program whose demo actually makes you want to go out and buy the program. Most other DAWs demos are too restrictive and offers very little tutorials or help for learning the interface.



It's arrangeview does need improvement (SessionView does too). Live's arrangement view has a few benefits that I like over Sonar like easier horizontal zooming, follow mode but some areas of its arrangement view are behind and it is understandable it put most of its energy on the unique Session View.

My point though is Live must not get too complacent with it's Arrangement View. All it would take is for another DAW like Cubase/Logic to seriously incorporate SessionView style sequencing, which would be a huge jab at Live, because then its Arrangement View would have to be brought up to par quickly.

Session View is not the only live performance feature of Live. The key commands that can be assigned to various things like turning on and off FX and instruments, plus it's entirely possible to fire clips while still having 19 out of 20 tracks in the Arrangement View.
As a player with a live drummer who carries most all percussive type sounds and as he gets fussy if I miss a bridge by even one beat, I tend to map out songs in the Arrangement most of the time. I have only two songs currently in Session view only, and one is going to be mapped to Arrangement next practice. I tend to miss a certain break sometimes as I'm also switching between soft synths at that point.
I generally start things in Session, but as sitting there staring at the laptop, waiting for a break to come up and essentially pushing a button to change scenes sounds like not a lot of fun compared to playing with both hands some soft synths or guitar.

[webslave]

I would dearly love to see Live take more influence from Kyma or Max . I really hate to see Live become another (if not improved) DAW.

I read this as 'Live should be for electronic music only'.

Personally I want Live to be a great electronic music program as well as a something I can record a band with as well. Why should you be limited to one genre of music by a programme?

I want to create AND record live music. Live is only a few steps away being very usable for that, it has track grouping (making drums that much easier) now it needs comping to make blending multiple takes of real instruments and vocals much easier. There is a work around but it's a brain blender.

For those who love their bleeps why is there no clip automation?

[Nokatus]

now it needs comping to make blending multiple takes of real instruments and vocals much easier.

So proper comping doesn't make it easier to blend multiple takes of... unreal instruments?

[adXok]

YES!!!

I would like to see Ableton handles 'multiple takes' and 'loop recording' simmilar to Reaper.

1. Every loop to be as a new file either on the hard drive or just as a audio clip or slice (arrangemetn view).
2. Choose how to be viewed all the recorded takes: either one above/below another, one after another or the last on top of the previous (on top)
3. Crossfades now are not so intuitive. They just have to be clip based (and stay into the clip!), not so envelope based as they are now

This is a missing feature that keeps me away from buying ableton for last 6 years.

[madlab]

I like Live so much on the sound design and on the fly improv, live loopin front. So much that I'd really like being able to use it also to record bands in the studio instead of DP. Just did that for a week and Live 8.04 was pretty stable and fast to operate. Sorry to tell it but the only thing that I missed was a better handling of multiple takes. That sounds like a typical DAW feature, but it's just that I'd like to use only one tool for all my needs.

[disco judas]

I would dearly love to see Live take more influence from Kyma or Max . I really hate to see Live become another (if not improved) DAW.
There were/are some really forward thinking ways in Live, for using it to explore new ways of making music and making electronic music "performable".
I would love to see much more of this type of R&D..
Oh..and can we have a built in IR verb so i can automate and use one in Rewire mode please?

I disagree completely, please continue in the DAW direction. This is now the only DAW for MaxMsp

[posssu]

I would dearly love to see Live take more influence from Kyma or Max . I really hate to see Live become another (if not improved) DAW.
There were/are some really forward thinking ways in Live, for using it to explore new ways of making music and making electronic music "performable".
I would love to see much more of this type of R&D..
Oh..and can we have a built in IR verb so i can automate and use one in Rewire mode please?

I disagree completely, please continue in the DAW direction. This is now the only DAW for MaxMsp

Same here. Please continue improving the DAW side. With each update Live has added DAW features, but ALSO added some inspiring performance and sound design features. They don't have to fight each other. Instead make Live a really good DAW with awesome sound design and performance features. Max is already being integrated to Live, so there's no need to make Live another Max.

As a composer this is exactly why I like Live: it has inspiring features that make me try out things I maybe otherwise wouldn't, but it's also still lacking really essential minor workflow features that make it just a little bit awkward to use as a DAW.

[emef]

yes, but that's only the secondary reason. The main reason for using arrangement more than session is because I do lots of micro chopping, stretching and tweaking of clips. A bar on one single track might contain 16 different clips, and the next and the next.

even when I am arranging - the arrangement needs to be carefully planned and tweaked. It is complex music I am making ... it needs planning !


perhaps it's a different story for people making simplistic dance music, but I am not.

I use arrangement, not just to arrange - but to create complex parts. Session can't do what I want - arrangement can.

yeah i use arrangement in the same way Angstrom
i use session for getting tracks started and for live gigs

[friend_kami]

+1





infact, i rarely use an audio editor any more heh.

[789lwnm2]

less daw features?

-1

[madlab]

Micro edits galore !!!

[core]

I would dearly love to see Live take more influence from Kyma or Max . I really hate to see Live become another (if not improved) DAW.
There were/are some really forward thinking ways in Live, for using it to explore new ways of making music and making electronic music "performable".
I would love to see much more of this type of R&D..
Oh..and can we have a built in IR verb so i can automate and use one in Rewire mode please?

what are you talking about??????

in the future, i do not want ableton to make new features in non ableton way.
DUDE! they are doing it in ableton way.

it's not fuityloops

personally, i would like to trash rewire from ableton live, if it means more stability, and less memory usage.