Man made Global Warming is not taking place

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Khazul
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Re: Man made Global Warming is not taking place

Post by Khazul » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:18 pm

Green Lemon wrote:So, I'd like to make an assumption that you, like me, are not enough of a climate scientist to actually examine the data and study the trends for yourself to form your opinions.
My original chosen career path was oceanograpy, but I ended up in software development, and dropped out earl to start a software company (In truth the idea of spending my life up in the arctic/antarctic was loosing its appeal :)). As well as the obvious directly ocean related studies, it also included some meteorology and moe generally climatology as well. Typically oceanography, climatology and meterology tend to go very close together and there is a huge cross over between the three.

However that was over 20 years ago, so Im not an upto date scienist on the subject by any means, but I can probably still make alot more sense of scientific papers on the subject than most people :)
Nothing to see here - move along!

H20nly
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Re: Man made Global Warming is not taking place

Post by H20nly » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:21 pm

ethios4 wrote:[speculative rant] When deer run out of resources, do they have a conference and decide to stop procreating and eating? No, a lot of them die until things are back in balance again. As much as I don't like the idea, it seems like this whole problem has to do with humans thinking we are separate from nature when in reality we are part of nature. Nature brings things back into balance no matter the cost. Basically nature has a gun to our heads and we are trying to talk our way out of it...."But I'll change, I'll just consume less, or differently" and nature says "No, you don't get it...your whole way is flawed and I'm gonna fix it"....boooom!

Humans created this problem with science and technology, and science and technology are going to fix it?
[/speculative rant]
BLAM!

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you can run... but you can't hide from the truth... it all comes out in the wash...

LoopStationZebra
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Re: Man made Global Warming is not taking place

Post by LoopStationZebra » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:26 pm

ethios4 wrote: Humans created this problem with science and technology, and science and technology are going to fix it?
[/speculative rant]

Why not? Science has done plenty of good as well. But yeah, it's going to take a catastrophe or crisis for any kind of real, concerted effort.

I don't believe in Nature. :lol:
I came for the :lol:
But stayed for the :x

Nicknackerski
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Re: Man made Global Warming is not taking place

Post by Nicknackerski » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:29 pm

Ok,
I understand, (i'm not trying to be pedantic or arrogant, i just want to put across my opinion)

Put aside the food problem.
If scientists (there are more then one of them BTW!!!) were able to provide an alternative solution for example:
Hydrogen from water (H20) split with electricity via new more efficient Nuke Reactors (as in generating a huge energy source from a smaller one)
Earth is 70% water and a huge energy source. Uranium can be used to make Hydrogen meaning Uranium sources last longer than if it were used to produced electricity for the national grid.

Its a pretty decent short term solution do you not think? (as in short tern until a replacement for Nuclear is substituted into the recipe)

or

The CERN experiment reveals Anti - Matter which can then be used as a substantial energy source.
I find his pretty amazing do you not agree?

My initial argument in your other thread was about pollution, over-packaging from large powerful corporations like supermarkets and over-population of the planet bringing about this:

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilder ... alypse-now

i think this is more substantial in concern than the running out of a particular Element of source of energy. I think this because as long as money is the motive for preventing change we'll just use more and more resources until the place is a fucking mess!!!!
(Large companies simply refuse to take on any environmental policies that drastically reduce profit margin or make their product look cheap i.e. packaging in relation to other companies)
Peace :mrgreen:

Emissary
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Re: Man made Global Warming is not taking place

Post by Emissary » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:35 pm

LoopStationZebra wrote:Yes, Em, but the things many suggest we do NOW are simply unattainable. They are pipe dreams, and you're smart enough to know that. Sorry, but whether a breakthrough happens now or in 100 years it'll be the scientists that do it. There's going to be a curve where, yeah, things are going to get painful. I've no doubt of that. But it's not moving the problem to another generation. It's starting now, and solving it in another generation. It's the only way.

While it's rather nice and quaint to take personal responsibility and drive a Prius or ride a bike or grow mellons, in the end that's just not going to do shit except make oneself feel better.

The solutions to energy, food, and global warming will be made with Big Moves. Huge advances in technology. The Manhattan Project x1000. It could be done. You know it could. Real solutions won't come about from photo op fuckery conferences like Copenhagen (which is collapsing, btw). Those are merely worthless distractions.
I cant really argue with a post like that, its all " what if's, hope, belief" It would be like arguing with a someone who believes in god. These are your hopes and dreams of what might happen, not what science and data is pointing towards.

We have entered peak oil, this mean that from now on the price of petrol,food,energy, will increase at an exponential rate until around 2020-2025, at which point it will be too expensive to pump out of the ground (takes more energy to recover than you actually get from it) That means we have roughly 12 years to build enough nuclear power stations to create the extra 85% of energy we need (if population doesn't increase which according to the UN it will massively) That means we have to start NOW to avoid a total collapse, not late next year but now. Best case scenario is that we start now, have 10 years of hell and then come out the other end and breath a sigh of relief. But once you include geopolitics into the equation you start to understand this will all be done as individual nations rather than as collective humanity. This means they each have to keep their populations from rising up, which means securing energy for their nations. which inevitably means war, which is the biggest waste of energy know to man (build things at huge cost to destroy them)

I notice you cant really find any science that will increase crop yields 300% (to account for the global population rise for the next century) or that means we no longer have to grow food in soil, but can grow it in space and have it feed off passing comets. Thats because there isn't any. Unless we start using people for food (population reduction anyway you look at it) Or perhaps we should directly eat the dead instead of letting them decay and enrich the soil naturally. That doesn't sounds like the kind of world i want to live in.

And for you information Hybrid cars are fucking bullshit, anyone who drives one of those should be made to sit and study energy consumption for the rest of their lives.

ChiDJ
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Re: Man made Global Warming is not taking place

Post by ChiDJ » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:38 pm

crofter wrote:Treadmills, the world is full of daft shites running on powered treadmills, remove the motors and replace with dynamos let them do something useful, the unemployed could do something to earn their benefits.
I love This!
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Emissary
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Re: Man made Global Warming is not taking place

Post by Emissary » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:39 pm

Nicknackerski wrote:Ok,
I understand, (i'm not trying to be pedantic or arrogant, i just want to put across my opinion)

Put aside the food problem.
If scientists (there are more then one of them BTW!!!) were able to provide an alternative solution for example:
Hydrogen from water (H20) split with electricity via new more efficient Nuke Reactors (as in generating a huge energy source from a smaller one)
Earth is 70% water and a huge energy source. Uranium can be used to make Hydrogen meaning Uranium sources last longer than if it were used to produced electricity for the national grid.

Its a pretty decent short term solution do you not think? (as in short tern until a replacement for Nuclear is substituted into the recipe)

or

The CERN experiment reveals Anti - Matter which can then be used as a substantial energy source.
I find his pretty amazing do you not agree?

My initial argument in your other thread was about pollution, over-packaging from large powerful corporations like supermarkets and over-population of the planet bringing about this:

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilder ... alypse-now

i think this is more substantial in concern than the running out of a particular Element of source of energy. I think this because as long as money is the motive for preventing change we'll just use more and more resources until the place is a fucking mess!!!!
(Large companies simply refuse to take on any environmental policies that drastically reduce profit margin or make their product look cheap i.e. packaging in relation to other companies)
Peace :mrgreen:

I'm going to say this just one more time. FOOD!, you can have all the hot baths, cinemas and battery powered dildos you want but if you don't eat, you die!

No more hydrocarbons, no more food (mass scale). its that simple really. who gives a shit if you can ride in a hover car if you dont have anything to eat. We are organic matter, we require organic matter to live.

Emissary
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Re: Man made Global Warming is not taking place

Post by Emissary » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:46 pm

anyway i am starting to get angry and offensive now, so i am taking a self imposed 25hr cool off period (yes 25) and a cold shower. :D

LoopStationZebra
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Re: Man made Global Warming is not taking place

Post by LoopStationZebra » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:48 pm

Emissary wrote: I cant really argue with a post like that, its all " what if's, hope, belief" It would be like arguing with a someone who believes in god. These are your hopes and dreams of what might happen, not what science and data is pointing towards.

Welllll. Shit, man. I dunno what to say anymore. lol. You're kinda bumming me out now.

:P
I came for the :lol:
But stayed for the :x

Nicknackerski
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Re: Man made Global Warming is not taking place

Post by Nicknackerski » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:48 pm

Emissary wrote:
Nicknackerski wrote:Ok,
I understand, (i'm not trying to be pedantic or arrogant, i just want to put across my opinion)

Put aside the food problem.
If scientists (there are more then one of them BTW!!!) were able to provide an alternative solution for example:
Hydrogen from water (H20) split with electricity via new more efficient Nuke Reactors (as in generating a huge energy source from a smaller one)
Earth is 70% water and a huge energy source. Uranium can be used to make Hydrogen meaning Uranium sources last longer than if it were used to produced electricity for the national grid.

Its a pretty decent short term solution do you not think? (as in short tern until a replacement for Nuclear is substituted into the recipe)

or

The CERN experiment reveals Anti - Matter which can then be used as a substantial energy source.
I find his pretty amazing do you not agree?

My initial argument in your other thread was about pollution, over-packaging from large powerful corporations like supermarkets and over-population of the planet bringing about this:

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilder ... alypse-now

i think this is more substantial in concern than the running out of a particular Element of source of energy. I think this because as long as money is the motive for preventing change we'll just use more and more resources until the place is a fucking mess!!!!
(Large companies simply refuse to take on any environmental policies that drastically reduce profit margin or make their product look cheap i.e. packaging in relation to other companies)
Peace :mrgreen:

I'm going to say this just one more time. FOOD!, you can have all the hot baths, cinemas and battery powered dildos you want but if you don't eat, you die!

No more hydrocarbons, no more food (mass scale). its that simple really. who gives a shit if you can ride in a hover car if you dont have anything to eat. We are organic matter, we require organic matter to live.
Ok, please explain the exact connection between Hydrocarbons i.e oil and lack of food.
I'm guessing hydrocarbons are massively used to replace lost nutrients in top soil?
Please educate me.
without insults please.

Emissary
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Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 11:27 am

Re: Man made Global Warming is not taking place

Post by Emissary » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:52 pm

Nicknackerski wrote:
Ok, please explain the exact connection between Hydrocarbons i.e oil and lack of food.
I'm guessing hydrocarbons are massively used to replace lost nutrients in top soil?
Please educate me.
without insults please.
OK dude, sorry if i offended, been a long day of fixing computers. have a read of this article i think it sums up the situation far better than i ever could

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/w ... g_oil.html

anyway time for that shower.

ethios4
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Re: Man made Global Warming is not taking place

Post by ethios4 » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:01 pm

ChiDJ wrote:
crofter wrote:Treadmills, the world is full of daft shites running on powered treadmills, remove the motors and replace with dynamos let them do something useful, the unemployed could do something to earn their benefits.
I love This!
i've long had an idea to start a gym where all of the treadmills, elliptical machines, and weights are all generating the electricity powering the building (or at least supplementing). I stare at the watts reading on the elliptical every time thinking about how much energy is being wasted!

ethios4
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Re: Man made Global Warming is not taking place

Post by ethios4 » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:05 pm

Nicknackerski wrote: Ok, please explain the exact connection between Hydrocarbons i.e oil and lack of food.
I'm guessing hydrocarbons are massively used to replace lost nutrients in top soil?
Please educate me.
without insults please.
You should read the article Emmisary posted.
In short, hydrocarbons have made it possible to produce many many times more food than we would be able to otherwise. Basically we are stripping nutrients out of the soil far faster than they are replaced, so we must add massive amounts of fertilizer, which is produced from hydrocarbon sources. We are 100% reliant on hydrocarbon based pesticides to grow anything because we've abandoned crop rotation practice. Not to mention the hydrocarbons consumed by farming machinery, and the transportation systems to move food around. Read the article, it's good.

Khazul
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Re: Man made Global Warming is not taking place

Post by Khazul » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:17 pm

ethios4 wrote:
ChiDJ wrote:
crofter wrote:Treadmills, the world is full of daft shites running on powered treadmills, remove the motors and replace with dynamos let them do something useful, the unemployed could do something to earn their benefits.
I love This!
Hmm - a though for prisons - give them large caged hampster wheels with dynamos instead of cells - make sure the power operates essential services (water, light, heat etc) - dont keep you wheel turning - you get nothing :)
ethios4 wrote: i've long had an idea to start a gym where all of the treadmills, elliptical machines, and weights are all generating the electricity powering the building (or at least supplementing). I stare at the watts reading on the elliptical every time thinking about how much energy is being wasted!
And charge double for anyone who doesnt generate their share of the power :)
Nothing to see here - move along!

ethios4
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Re: Man made Global Warming is not taking place

Post by ethios4 » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:26 pm

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