Ableton Forum

steve-o wrote:

forge wrote:

noisetonepause wrote:Reason has too many users to die in just a year.

Not all of them pay, naturally, but still. It's got a rather fanatical fan base (you should have seen the response I got when I went to their forum and said that Recycle dropping hardware support was a big mistake. The amount of snobbery(!) was just incredible...)

-Paws

without wanting to sound like an arse, you have to take into consideration Reason's target audience - mostly entry level - as they have proven by creating mastering plug-ins without the abilty to use them on anything outside reason bar playing it from a sampler which is just silly. I'm sure you can make great instrumental music with it but it's insane creating good mastering plug-ins that you can only use on the backing and not the total mix including vocals and other real instruments. You want to master the whole track - music is about integration of sounds to create a whole, so if reason cant provide the complete picture for you, why bother mastering it.

Yeah, I see your point about the limited use for the mastering plug-ins.

BUt if you liken Reason to a Triton or Fantom, then it's limitations become less remarkable. In my experience, especially on Roland, "mastering" type effects like compression, limiting, and eqing play a subtantial role in making those boards sound big, large, and full. Improving the sound engine and including mastering plug-ins narrows the gap considerably between Reason and hardware workstations.

maybe - I was just very disappointed they didn't do audio in or full duplex rewire - some way of integrating it a bit more totally

Im not really for a add on synth anytime soon. How would this synth be useful to everyone using Live. Ableton in my view, Live should be heavily optimized for both pc but more apple side right now. Work with every third party vendor assuring every vst and audio unit works in Live. If nothing ever crashes this will sing Live biggest praises. After all that heres some of my other wishlist agenda.

1. Filter effects plug in
2. Hybrid beat detection/warp engine
3. More customization of the plugin folders
4. More audio/midi editing capabilities
5. Pitch/bpm slider to go along with the already incorporated crossfader
6. Support for rex,apple loops, acid, mp3, acc, ogg if possible.
7. any other dj trickery madness

steve-o wrote:... if you liken Reason to a Triton or Fantom, then it's limitations become less remarkable. In my experience, especially on Roland, "mastering" type effects like compression, limiting, and eqing play a subtantial role in making those boards sound big, large, and full. Improving the sound engine and including mastering plug-ins narrows the gap considerably between Reason and hardware workstations.

Sound about right. It seems that the Reason developers are aiming at becoming the "workstation dragonslayers," and the 3.0 additions and improvements seem to be the first steps in that direction.

12micsn1 wrote:6. Support for rex,apple loops, acid, mp3, acc, ogg if possible.

I would agree with that only if it's possible to integrate support for those formats without unnecessarily bloating the program. If not, I'd rahter do without.

Pro Tools and Cubase do a convert upon import, theres nothing difficult about that. heck i can show you 12 year old script kiddies who could write such a module with no bloat

render as mp3 would do me fine

mosca

sweetjesus wrote:Pro Tools and Cubase do a convert upon import, theres nothing difficult about that. heck i can show you 12 year old script kiddies who could write such a module with no bloat

Do they do it as a convert-while-you-play? You just know people are going to complain if Ableton doesn't come up with that.

12micsn1 wrote:Im not really for a add on synth anytime soon. How would this synth be useful to everyone using Live.

How would a synth be useful to everyone? What kind of question is that? How was the Simpler or Impulse useful. I, along with many other "musicians" get a LOT of use out of those and would get a lot of use out of a Live synth device that takes up less CPU than any VST. Yes, it is great that Live can be many things to many people, but don't try to pigeon-hole Live as a DJ app because it was originally created as a Live Sequencing Instrument (see again, Instrument; so yes, a synth is the next logical and useful step!)

12micsn1 wrote:Work with every third party vendor assuring every vst and audio unit works in Live. If nothing ever crashes this will sing Live biggest praises.

No offense here but, this has got to be the most ridiculous statement I've heard so far. So you expect Ableton to be responsible to police all the hundreds of companies that make VSTs to ensure it works in Live!? The majority of the reason VSTs crash is not because of Live, but because of the makers of the VSTs! Come on, you KNOW this! Why do many VSTs work fine and a few don't? And those few that don't seem to have problems in almost ANY host application. So it is up to the makers of the VSTs to better their code to ensure a clean plug-in (and this is yet another reason for Ableton to make a synth device so we don't have to relie on shoddy VSTs!)

As for the following, if you could clarify:

1. Filter effects plug in

There is one. Or two. What is the Auto Filter? What is the Filter Delay? How about the filter setting in the other effect devices? What else were you refering to or hoping for?

2. Hybrid beat detection/warp engine

Not sure I understand this one... Isn't this the whole point of Live to begin with?

3. More customization of the plugin folders

In what way? Be more specific.

4. More audio/midi editing capabilities

As long as it doesn't sacrafice ease of use, yes this would always be nice.

5. Pitch/bpm slider to go along with the already incorporated crossfader

Not sure how I feel about this one...

6. Support for rex,apple loops, acid, mp3, acc, ogg if possible.

It's NOT that easy when doing real time performance based beat detection and warping. This has been stated by the Abletons many times. However, don't be suprised if they are able to work something in such as MP3 support in a future version. I do think it is funny how you guys want an application to support all it's competitors formats as well! Apple Loops!? Why? How? that's what Garageband is for. What, you want to search for your loops by genre... what spoiled kids we have become...

7. any other dj trickery madness

And since you elitist DJs demand that everything is catered to you exclusively, why not ask for a turntable interface like Final Scratch, or demand that ableton press timecode vinyl like Ms Pinky?

...Sorry to all that I went off there, just frustrating especially after coming off the Propellerhead's forums to see this and realize no matter WHAT Ableton (or any other company) adds to their app, there will always be people that will say "how is that useful" and want something completely different! Some people are never satisfied and it is usually those who are finding out that they are not creative enough to use what they got so they think more features tailored to their "style" will make them a hit Album! (not directing that to you necessarily 12micsn1)

Personally, i'm all for a new synth FM or otherwise, but especially FM since I don't like Native INsturments and haven't bought FM7!

But seriously, i'ld like to see Ableton go into Variphrase territory especially with simpler. Live would then be the V-synth killer and be the first truly modular affordable resynthesis synthesizer (and then I could ditch the beast!). PLus, warping would actually sound good!!! Maybe they'll come out with an add-on sampler to compliment simpler...

In fact I view both Reason and Live as modular synthesizer environments fused within a DAW paradigm. I'm psyched for combinator and operator. Together, the possibility for creating new sounds is pretty extensive.

I Love winter NAMM!!!!

genshi wrote:

12micsn1 wrote:Im not really for a add on synth anytime soon. How would this synth be useful to everyone using Live.

How would a synth be useful to everyone? What kind of question is that? How was the Simpler or Impulse useful. I, along with many other "musicians" get a LOT of use out of those and would get a lot of use out of a Live synth device that takes up less CPU than any VST. Yes, it is great that Live can be many things to many people, but don't try to pigeon-hole Live as a DJ app because it was originally created as a Live Sequencing Instrument (see again, Instrument; so yes, a synth is the next logical and useful step!)

12micsn1 wrote:Work with every third party vendor assuring every vst and audio unit works in Live. If nothing ever crashes this will sing Live biggest praises.

No offense here but, this has got to be the most ridiculous statement I've heard so far. So you expect Ableton to be responsible to police all the hundreds of companies that make VSTs to ensure it works in Live!? The majority of the reason VSTs crash is not because of Live, but because of the makers of the VSTs! Come on, you KNOW this! Why do many VSTs work fine and a few don't? And those few that don't seem to have problems in almost ANY host application. So it is up to the makers of the VSTs to better their code to ensure a clean plug-in (and this is yet another reason for Ableton to make a synth device so we don't have to relie on shoddy VSTs!)

As for the following, if you could clarify:

1. Filter effects plug in

There is one. Or two. What is the Auto Filter? What is the Filter Delay? How about the filter setting in the other effect devices? What else were you refering to or hoping for?

2. Hybrid beat detection/warp engine

Not sure I understand this one... Isn't this the whole point of Live to begin with?

3. More customization of the plugin folders

In what way? Be more specific.

4. More audio/midi editing capabilities

As long as it doesn't sacrafice ease of use, yes this would always be nice.

5. Pitch/bpm slider to go along with the already incorporated crossfader

Not sure how I feel about this one...

6. Support for rex,apple loops, acid, mp3, acc, ogg if possible.

It's NOT that easy when doing real time performance based beat detection and warping. This has been stated by the Abletons many times. However, don't be suprised if they are able to work something in such as MP3 support in a future version. I do think it is funny how you guys want an application to support all it's competitors formats as well! Apple Loops!? Why? How? that's what Garageband is for. What, you want to search for your loops by genre... what spoiled kids we have become...

7. any other dj trickery madness

And since you elitist DJs demand that everything is catered to you exclusively, why not ask for a turntable interface like Final Scratch, or demand that ableton press timecode vinyl like Ms Pinky?

...Sorry to all that I went off there, just frustrating especially after coming off the Propellerhead's forums to see this and realize no matter WHAT Ableton (or any other company) adds to their app, there will always be people that will say "how is that useful" and want something completely different! Some people are never satisfied and it is usually those who are finding out that they are not creative enough to use what they got so they think more features tailored to their "style" will make them a hit Album! (not directing that to you necessarily 12micsn1)

Sorry people but I AGREE with this post 100% - If you want fucking DJ features go buy Final Scratch or some such application.
I'm a muso and I wan't a musical application.
Not one that caters to the likes of the DJ fraternity - sorry but friggin tempo sliders / faders etc etc WTF .
You know Native instrument'd do a perfectly decent DJ style app.
This is NOT the way I want LIVE to go.
PLEASE ABLETON FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT BECOME A DJ CATERING APPLICATION - yes I'm screaming.


Sorry but this is one subject I'm particularly passionate about.
Live is a LIVE sequencing instrument - NOT a DJ'ing Laptop application .
It should remain firlmly routed in the realms of musical composition / performance etc etc ect ....

I apologise if this seems like flame bate but I don't wan't the app to become awash with DJ facist ideology and design.

I agree, though sometimes 'DJ' features are useful for other people too. I think I'd describe myself as a 'composer' (too pretentious?), who uses Live to rehash his own material on stage. If I was DJing exclusively, I'd definitely use NI's Traktor instead. The key to DJing software seems to be more about hardware interfaces, the hands-on control makes it more than the features.

I don't use Live for Dj'ing but I use the the crossfader and eq3 all the time - think outside the box and use whatever you can in whichever way it can be used!!

you two are both crazy!

I have played live electronic music since '88 and in that time my biggest problems have always been these:

1: moving from one 'section' to the next without a gap. from Steinberg's pro 24 onwards up to using Live - I still can't segue from one song or section to another without using a 'backing tape' whether that is a c90 cassete in '88 or traktor now.

2: disk space ... how ever much I have, I always need more. for some art performances on laptop I use sounscape samples which are very long - so as wavs are pretty huge. right now I play them in the background on another app and do my music 'on top' in ableton. It isn't the best solution - I would like to play these mp3 backings in live , or from live.


I am not a DJ , never have been a DJ , am not likely to become a DJ .. but these are features that I need.

rant on, crazy boy.

Angstrom wrote:1: moving from one 'section' to the next without a gap. from Steinberg's pro 24 onwards up to using Live - I still can't segue from one song or section to another without using a 'backing tape' whether that is a c90 cassete in '88 or traktor now.

so you want to be able to to merge .als's so to speak? or have 2 ableton windows open to load .als's in each and mix them? am i understanding your wants necessarily?

the cool thing about live is the fact that you can compose your stuff in it then move onto performing it whether in a live manner or dj style .. personally i make small chunks of tracks and dj it all together for live situation