Zeitgeist the movie (would be mandatory viewing if up 2 me)

[djgroovy]

19 arab guys, wich could not fight a small plane, hijacked 4 comercial planes with box cutters on the most high-tech, high security country in the world, and flew them around and about for 50 minutes all over the place and hit 75% of their targets, while norad did zilch. 6 of those arabs turned out to be alive and the comission report blamed... nobody.

"Surely you can't be serious."

THAT is a conspiracy theory, as opposed to the FACTS, like it's phisicaly and scientificaly impossibe for the 3 towers, including wtc7 wich was not hit (!) to fall at free fall speed without being imploded, and that would take weeks of preparation and some sort of 'inside job'. FACT!
And yet the report says they all fell "from fires". Look up theory on the dictionary.
That alone is enough for me, but there are dozens of flaws like that in the official theory.

[pilcrow]

19 arab guys, wich could not fight a small plane, hijacked 4 comercial planes with box cutters on the most high-tech, high security country in the world, and flew them around and about for 50 minutes all over the place and hit 75% of their targets, while norad did zilch. 6 of those arabs turned out to be alive and the comission report blamed... nobody.

"Surely you can't be serious."

THAT is a conspiracy theory, as opposed to the FACTS, like it's phisicaly and scientificaly impossibe for the 3 towers, including wtc7 wich was not hit (!) to fall at free fall speed without being imploded, and that would take weeks of preparation and some sort of 'inside job'. FACT!
And yet the report says they all fell "from fires". Look up theory on the dictionary.
That alone is enough for me, but there are dozens of flaws like that in the official theory.

Case closed. Thanks, Matlock.

[andydes]

19 arab guys, wich could not fight a small plane, hijacked 4 comercial planes with box cutters on the most high-tech, high security country in the world, and flew them around and about for 50 minutes all over the place and hit 75% of their targets, while norad did zilch. 6 of those arabs turned out to be alive and the comission report blamed... nobody.

"Surely you can't be serious."

THAT is a conspiracy theory, as opposed to the FACTS, like it's phisicaly and scientificaly impossibe for the 3 towers, including wtc7 wich was not hit (!) to fall at free fall speed without being imploded, and that would take weeks of preparation and some sort of 'inside job'. FACT!
And yet the report says they all fell "from fires". Look up theory on the dictionary.
That alone is enough for me, but there are dozens of flaws like that in the official theory.

"I am serious, and don't call me Shurley"

I wouldn't say it's a scientific fact the buildings couldn't fall down that way. The jury is still out on that one.

But it is a historical fact the the american government has used false fag opperations in the past. Same as everyone else, I'm sure. It's also well documented that they needed a new pearl harbour to get support for war in Iraq. That alone should get peveryone asking questions.

I find all the talk of remote controlled planes and missles somewhat distracting. If you wanted a big terrorist attack on the US to kick start opperations in the middle east, it would be much simpler and safer (in terms of getting found out) to use agents in existing terrorist groups to get them to do your dirty work for you. Unless you're of the oppinion that their are no islamic extremists out there.

I remember that Al Queada was mentioned by the press as being behind it almost straight away. This kind of came out on the news and no one questioned it.

The evidence I've heard linking Al Queada seems very suspitious. A bag of terrorist handbooks, flight manuals and a will which didn't make the connecting flight. The need for a connectiing flight was unnecessary especially considering risk of take such an incriminating piece of luggage.

There are also indiscrepances in the flight manifests, CCTV footage of suspects passing through airports which don't include time and date stamps (unheard of), CIA agents saying how they were taken off survalence of Al Queada cells, etc, etc.

If you think the more far effected sounding theories are daft, fair play. But it doesn't rule out the more plausible ones.

Just look at how the airforce encouraged stories of aliens and flying saucers to discredit anyone who happened to see one of their prototype aircraft. Brilliant really.

But at the end of the day, they are just theories. Our governments still lied to us to go to war and we'll be feeling that one for ages. Question is where to go from here?

[djgroovy]

I wouldn't say it's a scientific fact the buildings couldn't fall down that way. The jury is still out on that one.

Even if renown cientists and tecnicians, the people who built the towers could all be wrong, when they say it's not possible that the steel core could melt at the temperatures of burning jet fuel, and all the buildings falling completely vertical and pulverized (does fire pulverize tons of reinforced concrete?!), i could give the benefit of doubt.
But WTC 7? wtf... Even Larry Silverstein, the owner, said on TV that he and the fire department took the decision to "pull it". This was a mistake on his part, but of course the mainstream media didn't explore this, because "pull it" is the technical term for a controled demolition, and they could only do that with weeks of planing, placing explosives, etc.

If this had hapened in my country, i would want my government to investigate every inch of that rubble, and find out who was guilty.
The US government destroyed all the rubble, found no one responsible for the multiple failures in it's response/investigation, told a bunch of lies, and found out nothing about who's guilty, besides an obscure Al Qaeda connection with no proof to show.

P.s: are you aware of the connections between the bush and the bin laden families? Wonder why he never showed up.

[M. Bréqs]

Breqs, by the way, makes a whale of a lot of sense. And he's done his homework.

Thanks, it's appreciated. And yes, I've done a LOT of reading on the history and current state of islam.

[fatrabbit]

The 9/11 conspiracy is a lazy man's conspiracy. It doesn't require you to do anything when "the powers that be" can pull something so massive off and mislead the world - you are "powerless". Maybe the truth is that an inept government took advantage of the fear to go into Iraq, rather than engineering the whole thing?

How about being concerned with poverty, inequality, slavery etc. still present in the world?

But then someone who believes the conspiracy would say i'm "in on it", wouldn't they? And so the lazy man's circle continues.

[Patch]

P.s: are you aware of the connections between the bush and the bin laden families? Wonder why he never showed up.

FACT: Bin Laden is kickin' it in the jacuzzi at the White House.

I know this to be true. I read it on t'interweb...

[djgroovy]

How about being concerned with poverty, inequality, slavery etc. still present in the world?

One can really see that concern in Iraq. I mean, they're so much better now!

But then someone who believes the conspiracy would say i'm "in on it", wouldn't they? And so the lazy man's circle continues.

I would say it's a lazy man who just believes blindly what he's told and doesnt check out the facts for himself, so you are not "in on it" but more out of it...

[ethios4]

I'm about halfway through, and this is great! Astrotheology meets 911 conspiracy! I love it....lots to think about.

Gotta say: for a movie that starts with a declaration that truth is the authority, they are not being very honest during the bashing of Christianity. The idea that Jesus Christ never existed as a historical person is an old idea, and one that is far from widely accepted in serious scholarship. To portray such an idea without placing it in the greater academic context is irresponsible. To distill any of the myth/religions into such neat little columns of info like they did for the various mystery religions is to disregard the vast differences between the stories of Horus, Dionysus, Mithra, Jesus, etc, and also disregards the historical context that these various mystery religions belong to. The astrotheology stuff is fascinating though.

The sources list looks like a bunch of books from the bookstore... all secondhand research. This movie is not a serious academic study at all.

That's the problem I have with nearly everything I have seen on this fascinating subject... long on passion, short on research and intellectual honesty.

When people profess strong viewpoints like this on these subjects, but don't tell both sides of the story, I get the feeling they are afraid of presenting both sides because deep down they know they don't have the rock-solid facts to back it all up.

[jamief]

Excellent

[jesQuick]

oh, and if anybody cares, i made a (strangely) similar film a little while ago, but it's only about 7.5 minutes, and it's more aesthetic and less informative...

you can check it out here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBsep4Xosk8

Beautifull movie... Thank you so much!

My wifes pregnancy has made me think hard about stuff like this... Allways brings a tear to my eye.

Peace and much love from all my familly!

Best

-j

[glu]

One nation, under Arrest... with liberty and justice for the elite few...

[timothyallan]

just watched this yesterday... yikes!

[Nod]

P.s: are you aware of the connections between the bush and the bin laden families?.

(didn''t really want to touch another ot/political thread round here but...)

Bush's CIA, the Bin Laden's, the Pakistani ISI and the Afghani heroin warlords ALL used the same bank - namely the utterly corrupt BCCI. Going all the way back to that, and other topics, arguably the best online resource currently on the web on the wider subjects behind 9/11 is:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/proj ... 11_project

In terms of actually addressing the real conspiracy against the American people, and wider world, after 9/11 this, imo, is probably the best doc there is:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 1&q=&hl=en

Forget pods, freefall buildings, illuminati saurians, holographic Osama's and just stick to the foreknowledge and incompetence you can prove and reference.

(walks carefully backward out of thread)

[ethios4]

Good call, Nod. Stick to what's irrefutable, build a case from that; skip the speculation.

In case anyone here is interested, there is a much more thorough debunking of Zeitgeist part I HERE - this is mandatory reading for anyone freaking out about Zeitgeist, IMO.