why are there fights on the ableton forum

[TomViolenz]

According to the AABS study, there is broad agreement that it is possible to define different personality types in dogs. These relate to traits such as sociability, aggressiveness, fearfulness, etc.

But there is limited evidence that these traits correlate much with breed anyway.

Sorry, but that is not my experience AT ALL
If you here a dog bark (if you want to call it that) in 95% of the cases it's a small dog.
If a dog is agressive, in 80% it's a small dog.
There is also good reason why some breeds are suggested as dogs if you have kids and some are adviced against. And it's inversely correlated to size.

In other words, socialization and training count for a lot in dogs.

So I would say there is little evidence for personality (in dogs) being correlated with size (in dogs)

What about dog size & personality in owners?

The personality of the owners makes it usually much worse though. Small dog owners are the least likely to do proper dog training or are willing to educate themselves on dogs.
Yes you can train dogs to respond to words.
No, NO, NO, they don't respond to: Aw, how often have I told you not to do that you little rascal, you know how angy this makes me. But no, here you go again...aw, here have something sweet, oh, aren't you cute.....

[TomViolenz]

Lol, you don't have a very good observational sense then do you

(And yes, I'm with Shadx, the small dogs (and their owners) I am referring to fit into a purse and are what I classify as ankle biters.

It is common knowledge btw. that these small dogs have behavioral disorders akin to a perpetualy overcompensated low self esteem. That usually goes for their owners as well.

Your conclusions are essentially what's wrong with people these days, their "observational sense" takes precedent over evidence.
I have met many dog owners that hate cats, therefore I can say that most dog owners are cat haters. <-- It's an observation that has no real basis in scientific evidence, it's just anecdotal, and serves no real purpose but to discredit dog owners.

Consider taking the same train of thought into people and this logic is the basis of all prejudice really.
'I have met many indians that smell like curry, most indians don't bathe enough.'
'I have observed many young black males in ghettos, and many of them are thieves. I don't trust young black men.'
There is no subjective difference in the "evidence" presented and the conclusion reached, it's just that when it comes to skin color in regards to an ethnic group, you would never come to such anecdotal conclusions.

So by your logic if I see a guy with a shoddily made tatoo, I shouldn't conclude he most probably has been in prison before?!

But you did confirm my suspicion that you take this stance because of a misunderstood wish to be fair to different ethnic groups.
As I said above this doesn't apply here.

[Princess Buttercup]

So by your logic if I see a guy with a shoddily made tatoo, I shouldn't conclude he most probably has been in prison before?!

Either that or that he's promiscuous and has daddy issues.

[TomViolenz]

One of the most friendly outgoing happy girls I know has one of the smallest, most angry dogs I've met.

BTW: You are pointing to selection bias, which is apt but not in the way you think it is. The dog owners select the kind of dog they want. So different sort of people select different sorts of dogs, making the dog they own a good representation of the type of person they are.

I'll just leave this here, because you're so invested in your conclusion, you quoted evidence contradicting it, and continued to keep at it.

So your anecdote is evidence now?!
And just because your friend is friendly and outgoing, doesn't mean she didn't get the dog to have control over something. That doesn't have to express itself in being agressive or unhappy, it can be the typical incessant mothering too.

[TomViolenz]

So by your logic if I see a guy with a shoddily made tatoo, I shouldn't conclude he most probably has been in prison before?!

Either that or that he's promiscuous and has daddy issues.

No the main point was not the tatoo part but the shoddy part. Lot's of people have tatoos, but only in prison and youth gangs they use makeshift tools to make them.

So the correlation here is that what I can observe as a characteristic is directly related to something tangible. Dog owners self selecting what kind of dog they prefer, definitely applies.

BTW Only in the Lounge goes a thread on fights in the forum to the topic of dogs and then turns into a fight on dogs. Classic

[Machinesworking]

So your anecdote is evidence now?!
And just because your friend is friendly and outgoing, doesn't mean she didn't get the dog to have control over something. That doesn't have to express itself in being agressive or unhappy, it can be the typical incessant mothering too.

So basically if there is evidence that contradicts your conclusion, then it's just that there are other reasons… logic fail big time there.

You could as easily say that there are many reasons to own a small dog, and that, would be a logical conclusion. Attempting to establish the reasons for owning a small dog by conjecture and anecdotal evidence is faulty logic, period.

[ian_halsall]

How does drama even HAPPEN on a music production forum?
So many arguments happen on this forum on a day to day basis for absolutely no reason at all...
This forum needs to take a chill pill.

Because someone once said: "music is a matter of life and death" and hist mate replied: "don't be stupid - it's much more important than that"

[TomViolenz]

So your anecdote is evidence now?!
And just because your friend is friendly and outgoing, doesn't mean she didn't get the dog to have control over something. That doesn't have to express itself in being agressive or unhappy, it can be the typical incessant mothering too.

So basically if there is evidence that contradicts your conclusion, then it's just that there are other reasons… logic fail big time there.

You could as easily say that there are many reasons to own a small dog, and that, would be a logical conclusion. Attempting to establish the reasons for owning a small dog by conjecture and anecdotal evidence is faulty logic, period.

Ehm, your evidence was nothing but an anecdote either
So faulty logic, right back at you

[Tarekith]

I think from now on when you guys start bickering I'm just going to post puppy pictures. Of big dogs.

[re:dream]

post puppy pictures. Of big dogs.

Here ya go

[re:dream]

@ Thomas

This one suggests that small dogs do behave differently - but because they get treated differently, and are trained differently

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/articles/smalltoydogs.htm

[TomViolenz]

@ Thomas

This one suggests that small dogs do behave differently - but because they get treated differently, and are trained differently

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/articles/smalltoydogs.htm

So it all comes back to nurture over nature again. Interesting!

[Princess Buttercup]

Genetics clearly have no influence on behaviour. Praying-mantises, for example, could easily be mistaken for lemurs were it not for their shiny emerald veneer.

[Princess Buttercup]

[TomViolenz]

Genetics clearly have no influence on behaviour. Praying-mantises, for example, could easily be mistaken for lemurs were it not for their shiny emerald veneer.