Ableton Forum

I was actually thinking the same Hambone, actually a good thing, at least the pc><mac fundumentalists dont kill each other.BTW. buddists-Japan, Korea are probably the most fanatic mobil phone users on the planet.
Regarding so called sucess, i did enjoyed my share of it- financially and popularity wise, dont think got spoiled or damaged by it, and yes, the haters definitely are part of that, could be seen as unfortunate measure of it, perhaps. Perhaps it is good for the ego, to become free of it, so I wont ever have failure complex ( finding my name in E.Britanica did feel good or having my MTV videos watched in whole of Asia) once the ego was fed properly, so this way I am free.
Some of my musicians became millioners and I am not, they made their choices I did mine, everybody happily lives in his own way. The choices are much more consious then people may admit,. My observation is that too comfortable, too smooth, sleek life is not necessary the most stimulating to creativity. I learned for myself that i can live without lots of things, people, relationshps, I am addicted to the creativity, composing, playing under inspiration and interacting with others on the base of love. Everything else is just add on that I can , would sacrifice for the former anytime.

rikhyray wrote:I was actually thinking the same Hambone, actually a good thing, at least the pc><mac fundumentalists dont kill each other.BTW. buddists-Japan, Korea are probably the most fanatic mobil phone users on the planet.
Regarding so called sucess, i did enjoyed my share of it- financially and popularity wise, dont think got spoiled or damaged by it, and yes, the haters definitely are part of that, could be seen as unfortunate measure of it, perhaps. Perhaps it is good for the ego, to become free of it, so I wont ever have failure complex ( finding my name in E.Britanica did feel good or having my MTV videos watched in whole of Asia) once the ego was fed properly, so this way I am free.
Some of my musicians became millioners and I am not, they made their choices I did mine, everybody happily lives in his own way. The choices are much more consious then people may admit,. My observation is that too comfortable, too smooth, sleek life is not necessary the most stimulating to creativity. I learned for myself that i can live without lots of things, people, relationshps, I am addicted to the creativity, composing, playing under inspiration and interacting with others on the base of love. Everything else is just add on that I can , would sacrifice for the former anytime.

I must admit, very well put.

simpleton wrote:just curious, is Jobs a Scientologist?

What makes you think so?

By all accounts he's 'Buddhist'. Though I'm not sure if that's California Zen or something with a bit more substance.

genshi wrote:

rikhyray wrote:...I usually try to stay objective, but the problem with many on this forum is the same problem with America in general, everyone is either extreme Right or extreme Left! No centered voice of reason that can stand back and objectively look at a situation for what it is... and from what I've seen (since Jobs has come back to Apple) is a guy that is passionate about making sexy, innovative products that make people go "Wow!" and that work! And yes, he does this with extreme ego and some arrogance, and he does it with the protection of a mother protecting her first born, but that IS a sign of a true artist as opposed to the typical Gates "here's another half-assed version of Windows that will cause you endless driver updates and blue screens of death."

I absolutely agree. That is why I love Apple products. Not necessarily becasue they are "sexy", but because they work well, and a neophyte like myself can wrap my head around their OS easier. That makes me say "Wow!" more than anything physical about Apple's products. I feel very fortunate to be witness to these new "lightbulbs". They may not make my life any better. I may never be able to afford them. Buy as a moderately geeky dude that admires not only new tech, but well thought out and produced ideas, I get a kick from it.

Just the notion that I can carry in my pocket on a PHONE, more music than would be contained in an old-school Wurlitzer Jukebox (the size of a washing machine) blows my mind. The fact that I can call anyone from anywhere and I don't have to be a millionaire to do it: mind-blowing. The fact that I can take a picture and instantly see it and send it to anyone else: surreal. The fact that I can find out any bit of information while being damn-near anywhere: amazing. Hell, the fact that I can make music that sounds like an orchestra on a box that fits in a small bag while being anywhere in the world: WOW!

Next major apple notebook model change will have a touchscreen in place of the querty. This year should be pretty crazy..

genshi wrote: and from what I've seen (since Jobs has come back to Apple) is a guy that is passionate about making sexy, innovative products that make people go "Wow!" and that work! And yes, he does this with extreme ego and some arrogance, and he does it with the protection of a mother protecting her first born, but that IS a sign of a true artist as opposed to the typical Gates "here's another half-assed version of Windows that will cause you endless driver updates and blue screens of death."

I can't say that's an objective view at all? Gates and Co. are definitely passionate about their product. The thing is it's geared towards the office crowd, that's all. They take no chances, too big of a ship to take sharp corners.
Why would Gates stay in charge of Microsoft for so long, after accumulating more money than anybody could possibly spend in a lifetime? He's passionate about his company.
You have to give the man that.

Machinesworking wrote:

genshi wrote: and from what I've seen (since Jobs has come back to Apple) is a guy that is passionate about making sexy, innovative products that make people go "Wow!" and that work! And yes, he does this with extreme ego and some arrogance, and he does it with the protection of a mother protecting her first born, but that IS a sign of a true artist as opposed to the typical Gates "here's another half-assed version of Windows that will cause you endless driver updates and blue screens of death."

I can't say that's an objective view at all? Gates and Co. are definitely passionate about their product. The thing is it's geared towards the office crowd, that's all. They take no chances, too big of a ship to take sharp corners.
Why would Gates stay in charge of Microsoft for so long, after accumulating more money than anybody could possibly spend in a lifetime? He's passionate about his company.
You have to give the man that.

Yes, passionate about the company, but not about it's products. There's the difference. Jobs will sometimes be more passionate about the product (whether it's a success or failure) DESPITE the company Apple. Though I'm sure he definitely has Apple's profits and best interest at the very top of the list, he's also really just a big kid wanting to make cool products that he himself would want to play with and hopes (and sometimes demands) that others think the same. But I think this interview of Jobs regarding Microsoft really sums it up the best and is still VERY relevant today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upzKj-1HaKw

Incidentally, I have used Apple and PCs from the near beginning (mid to late 1970s) switching to Amigas in the late 80s early 90s and then to Unix based systems around the same time (Sun, SGI) but when Jobs came back, introduced the Unix based OS X and now [finally] the switch to Intel processors, that's when I knew it wasn't JUST about the money, he cared about the product AND the industry.

Anyway, all of this back and forth is ridiculous, the bottom line is a new product is introduced with the iPhone that many (me included) think will revolutionize the industry while others don't think so. The others that don't think so are the same ones that thought the iPod would fail miserably... you know what they say about hindsight. Regardless of what anyone thinks of Jobs, these products are important to the industry.

I'm usually pretty good at predicting these technologies (as a self-proclaimed Futurist). For example, I predicted the iPod would be huge but that the Cube would fail. I am predicting with the iPhone, that by 2008, EVERY cellphone company will be trying to copy it and you will see some actual providers (unfortunately, better ones than Cingular) go out of business. By 2010, the patented technologies involved with the iPhone will have a dramtic effect on all sorts of industries, from general computing, to the medical industry which is already ordering customized iPhones that will display patient medical records or download realtime heart/ecg images, etc.

I guess time will tell...

genshi wrote:I'm usually pretty good at predicting these technologies (as a self-proclaimed Futurist). For example, I predicted the iPod would be huge but that the Cube would fail. I am predicting with the iPhone, that by 2008, EVERY cellphone company will be trying to copy it and you will see some actual providers (unfortunately, better ones than Cingular) go out of business. By 2010, the patented technologies involved with the iPhone will have a dramtic effect on all sorts of industries, from general computing, to the medical industry which is already ordering customized iPhones that will display patient medical records or download realtime heart/ecg images, etc.

I guess time will tell...

LOL! you predicted mp3 players would be huge? WOW!
like predicting the world overheat...
And now you are predicting the iphone, that's too easy man!
i think it's obvious for evrybody that mobile devices will increase their market and userbase even more then the increase in the last 6-7 years with pocketpcs, the iphone it's a copy of a pocketpcphone! with a couple new features, quite useless multitouch screen, proximity sensor(wondering what will happend when you hold it in landscape touching the sensor, multitouch will lock?), nothing that changes world or the way we communicate..
tell me a task that the (still not existing) iphone can do that a 2006 pocketpc phone can't do...

glu wrote:Next major apple notebook model change will have a touchscreen in place of the querty. This year should be pretty crazy..

Shit I'm still waiting for Live to support tablets.

yeah, hopefully L7. So what is the hassle with a tablet + midi controller+ automapping? What do you find being the biggest flow breaker?

No hassle, no flow breakage really, but I do feel 1-step removed. Imagine playing a multi-touch tablet running Live! A Lemur with a CPU- nothing between you and the thing that makes your sounds! To me that's the ultimate interface.

I dunno, doesn't it seem realistic that multi-touch screens will eventually replace the controls on like, EVERYTHING? Your TV, microwave, car dashboard, phone, coffee maker...you know?

And then we'll all be ass-out when the power goes out

genshi wrote:Incidentally, I have used Apple and PCs from the near beginning (mid to late 1970s) switching to Amigas in the late 80s early 90s and then to Unix based systems around the same time (Sun, SGI) but when Jobs came back, introduced the Unix based OS X and now [finally] the switch to Intel processors, that's when I knew it wasn't JUST about the money, he cared about the product AND the industry.

I think if he really cared about the product, specifically computers etc. they would make OSX even more bullet proof, and let it run wild. I've always used Macs, but I have to say the idea behind roll your own PCs is a better concept than selling me a nice box with great components, but maybe not what I need.
Point is, it's not as glamorous as Macs, but Gates and Co. also have a vision that in many ways is more accessible to the poor than Macs are. You don't see Mac software at Target for a reason.
I just think fueling Mac VS PC with jabs at PCs whether true or not fuels people when they try to insinuate that you're caught in Jobs reality distortion field.
Plus, I guess I'm worried that OSX won't improve, and that the computer side is now not as important.

Machinesworking wrote:

genshi wrote:Incidentally, I have used Apple and PCs from the near beginning (mid to late 1970s) switching to Amigas in the late 80s early 90s and then to Unix based systems around the same time (Sun, SGI) but when Jobs came back, introduced the Unix based OS X and now [finally] the switch to Intel processors, that's when I knew it wasn't JUST about the money, he cared about the product AND the industry.

I think if he really cared about the product, specifically computers etc. they would make OSX even more bullet proof, and let it run wild. I've always used Macs, but I have to say the idea behind roll your own PCs is a better concept than selling me a nice box with great components, but maybe not what I need.
Point is, it's not as glamorous as Macs, but Gates and Co. also have a vision that in many ways is more accessible to the poor than Macs are. You don't see Mac software at Target for a reason.
I just think fueling Mac VS PC with jabs at PCs whether true or not fuels people when they try to insinuate that you're caught in Jobs reality distortion field.
Plus, I guess I'm worried that OSX won't improve, and that the computer side is now not as important.

Nope, completely disagree. In fact the Gates/PC model that everyone thought made most sense (any company can make a pc or you canroll your own which drives prices down, etc.) is now coming full circle as people are finally geting fed up with the inconstancies of the PC market because there is no quality control among the various PC manufacturers (though I do agree that rolling your own, if you know what you are doing, is a very good thing.) Jobs quoted Alan Kay of Xerox Parc who said "If any company is serious about Software, they need to make their own Harware." He said that 30 years ago, it's what Apple has always done and it's finally proving to be the way to go (for stability, innovation, etc.) And it's ridiculous for you to say that OS X won't improve... it's improving all the time! And more bullet proof? God you people are amazing! That's like saying "I wish Live can do everything the $1000 DAWs do but never ever have any problems and make it cheaper than it is now."... oh wait, you guys all DO say that! And there's the problem...

zappen wrote:

genshi wrote:I'm usually pretty good at predicting these technologies (as a self-proclaimed Futurist). For example, I predicted the iPod would be huge but that the Cube would fail. I am predicting with the iPhone, that by 2008, EVERY cellphone company will be trying to copy it and you will see some actual providers (unfortunately, better ones than Cingular) go out of business. By 2010, the patented technologies involved with the iPhone will have a dramtic effect on all sorts of industries, from general computing, to the medical industry which is already ordering customized iPhones that will display patient medical records or download realtime heart/ecg images, etc.

I guess time will tell...

LOL! you predicted mp3 players would be huge? WOW!
like predicting the world overheat...
And now you are predicting the iphone, that's too easy man!
i think it's obvious for evrybody that mobile devices will increase their market and userbase even more then the increase in the last 6-7 years with pocketpcs, the iphone it's a copy of a pocketpcphone! with a couple new features, quite useless multitouch screen, proximity sensor(wondering what will happend when you hold it in landscape touching the sensor, multitouch will lock?), nothing that changes world or the way we communicate..
tell me a task that the (still not existing) iphone can do that a 2006 pocketpc phone can't do...

You know Zappen, you are a complete idiot and I'm sick of dealing with you. Are you still in High School or something? READ WHAT I SAID. I did NOT predict MP3 players would be huge, I predicted the iPod would be huge at a time that there were already MP3 players like the Nomad with it's 20GB hard drive (the first iPod only had 5GB) and the majority of people including Apple fans were saying this was going to be the biggest failure for Apple and that it was a waste of time and too little too late! Don't believe me, here is the thread (which I've already posted here once before but since you don't actually read everything, here it is again) from 2001 on the Macrumors site. Everyone should read this and see how people are saying almost the EXACT same thing about the first iPod as what people are saying now about the iPhone. Nobody thought it would be revolutionary, but it's not just a popular mp3 player [the iPod] it completely changed the way we consume music. It forced record companies to change the way they sell their Music. And now more people legally download music at a point that it will eventually put the CD business, out of business.

You keep saying "useless Multitouch" but that's because you haven't the brain to see the big picture of where this can lead to. And I've said all of this before and I hate repeating myself, so next time READ what I said and don't misquote me Zappen you little @sswipe. It's one thing having a legitamate debate, but if you are going to "lol" at me and misquote me, then you ARE an idiot.

genshi wrote:Nope, completely disagree. In fact the Gates/PC model that everyone that made most sense (anybody can make a pc/roll your own which drives prices down, etc.) is now coming full circle as people are finally geting fed up with the inconsitiencies of the PC market because there is no quality control among the various PC manufacturers (though I do agree that rolling your own, if you know what you are doing, is a great thing.) Jobs quoted Alan Kay of Xerox Parc who said "If any company is serious about Software, they need to make their own Harware." He said that 30 years ago, it's what Apple has always done and it's finally proving to be the way to go (for stability, innovation, etc)

In my world, audio, Apple has actually gotten in the way of innovation. I was all for Audio Units two years ago, but I really don't see the point now. Coders being forced to recode the same application over and over again. with no improvement in the end product. OSX is an improvement for sure, but I found it both a happy thing for me as a mac user, and a sad thing for me, as a person who cares about the developers I love the products of, to watch Apple switch from OS9 to OSX, then from VST to AU, then from PPC to UB.... all the coding to write the same program on what amounts to three different platforms, OSX, AU, Intel (UB) =great for me and you, but I hardly call that great for the developer who chooses to code for OSX.
hopefully that will be the end of it for a while.
Also why is it both true that roll your own PC's are great, and Apple making the hardware also great? Possibly because both are. Personally I think they should allow people to buy the OS, (unsupported BTW) but not license it to any OEM PC maker.

And it's ridiculous for you to say that OS X won't improve... it's improving all the time! And more bullet proof? God you people are amazing!

You're starting to lose your cool, I'm only conversing with you because I think you can understand, not to debate etc. So please, dispense with the histrionics.
I find bugs in OSX all the time, I think there is plenty of room for improvement. I think it's a great OS, but I do think it could use some improvement on the Finder, (which has issues IMO) and things like restricting CPU on the laptops without any way to turn it off without removing a kernal, just to get the Macbook to compete with PC laptops in performace tests is lame. So what if some dumb ass from bumfuck nowhere sets it to run at top speed all the time then complains about battery life? That right there is my main gripe with Apple, the thinking is dome for you, and not always for the best for your needs.
Of course I've used Macs for 20 years, so yeah, I doubt tomorrow I'll decide that my minor problems with OSX are enough to make me wade through XP/Vista!8O Besides I live near redmond, and Microsoft employees for the most part make me not want to use their OS, ever.
The serious caveats in OSX for quads after the G5 quad was released that didn't get resolved for months are a great example of OSX bugginess.

That's like saying "I wish Live can do everything the $1000 DAWs do but for cheaper than it is now."... oh wait, you guys all DO say that! And there's the problem...

Dramatic flare there in Hollywood huh? who would have figured? I own logic and DP as well, and yeah, I think it should get to that level, minus the plug ins, I like to collect my own. Logic 7's poor start is a great example of how Apple can jump the gun with the best of them.

All told though, I'm only complaining because I'm Apple's bitch as far as software goes. It would be a total mess for me to go to Linux or XP, and the whole name change is a bit unsettling for someone who really only cares about the OS.