Logic 8 finally released! NO JOKE THIS TIME!

jeskola · Post by **jeskola** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:50 pm

It looks fuck all like live except the piano roll under the arrangment thing.. or am i missing somthing?

exaltron · Post by **exaltron** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:50 pm

AFAICT, The two main issues I've always had with Logic have not been remedied:

1. No Rewire slave (the Logic 8 manual states "Logic acts as a host", ie, master only), which means you can't take advantage of Live's smooth tempo changes in a live setting, or easily loop what you're doing in Live on the fly

2. No ability to do those Live-esque realtime changes in Logic

So I'm back to my old retarded workarounds: if I want to use Logic's instruments, sampler, vocoder, etc., in a live performance, I have to either "Jack" them together (major latency and memory issues), or run Logic on a separate laptop.

Summarizing: Logic 8=great value for the $$, but not a Live-killer except maybe for studio-only work.

[goes back down into hole to wait for Logic 9]

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:57 pm

With a bit of luck (and wisdom imho) it will just encourage Ableton to lower their prices somewhat, and hopefully bundle Sampler and Operator free with Live 7 (hardly a big loss to them at this point, surely?)

exaltron · Post by **exaltron** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:58 pm

jeskola wrote:It looks fuck all like live except the piano roll under the arrangment thing.. or am i missing somthing?

Logic is still not designed to be a live looping, record/loop on the fly, change tempo, etc.

In that screenshot, where you're seeing the midi editor, you would see the clip editor of Live which would let you timestretch, repitch, etc in realtime; none of this is feasible/practical in Logic.

While mainstage may be a step forward and a nod to laptoppers and live musicians, Ableton still pwns the live-remixing and laptop-as-live-instrument territory.

Freekster · Post by **Freekster** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:00 pm

I have been using Live and Logic side by side for years now. They are two different produtcs to me. I can't think a situation where i would use logic to do live set and can't think a single reason to use Live for recording or mixing. In recording/mixing world Logic kicks Live's ass 100-0.

I was a "bit" mad when i heard the price. I have spent allmost two grand on that software and now the usb dongle is completly worthless. But fuck that. It's better that other people get it cheaper.

Live 6 was a bit overpriced when it came out. Sampler and Operator should have been included to the price. Neither of those are THAT good. But i bought both with my Live upgrade to support Ableton. Sampler I use mostly to playback my EXS24 patches

I hope to see Sampler, Operator and all the samples that Ableton boys&girls can find to be included on the next version on Live. Otherwise it maybe end of the Ableton as we know it. Sure there is people like me that keep supporting Ableton, but to Grow and stay alive they need more paying customers.

Apples decision to drop the copyprotection from Logic is a killer marketing move. They just don't care does it sell or not as every warez version needs a Mac to work

kabuki · Post by **kabuki** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:03 pm

headquest wrote:
kabuki wrote: I wonder how the Propellerheads are feeling today since V4 hits in 2 weeks? Prolly not too good.
Logic 8 looks tempting to me, and a great price... until I factor in buying an over-priced mac computer to run it on. And THAT'S surely what this is all about

EDIT because I realize starting a Mac/PC falmewar is pointless and I don't want to make an ass out of myself more than I already do...

WINK.

Hercules Robinson · Post by **Hercules Robinson** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:04 pm

Must admit, it looks really nice I think, I feel it has a Live feel in respect of the midi editor at the bottom of that screenshot and the File browser on the side. More the arrangement of items in that arranger view give it a kind of Live feel, in those aspects. Always nice to see other software sequencers out there and there approach. I personally just like a nice simple UI experience.

jrathkopf · Post by **jrathkopf** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:05 pm

to all those giving up on Live, I would say wait and see what happens with Cycling 74.
in a free market, you need competitive competition,and now i would say Live has some serious compeition. but i hav no doubt Live will survive and do quite well. they have some clever dudes working at ableton.
as a former logic user, i can say that its midi is definelty better, the plugs are better, but sound quality in live is fine. they need to improve their plugins offers in my opinion and to polish up some of its workflow ( such as recirding midi controller movements in session)

LOFA · Post by **LOFA** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:13 pm

As much as this does look like an incredible bargain for a studio workflow, Live is still the clear solution for a performance driven work-flow.

I agree that without the option to run Logic as a slave I am considerably disinterested.

As much as I would like to say that prospective collaborating with C74 is enough to satisfy me, as I am more interested in using Live as an interface for creating dynamic interactive music and controlling interactive multimedia installations than say crafting traditional songs, I do rely on standard features of a DAW for creating demos and I am shocked that some features are not yet implemented in Live.

It seems like the audio editing and midi features that logic has to offer are entirely realistic to expect from software that has worked along these lines for as long as Live has. I too hope that the competitive pricing benefits us ableton users.

I will add though that the racks/macros stuff has been invaluable to me and I am glad that ableton has focused on these innovative developments.

Up to this point having Logic and Live has been enough for me. I still have more than enough to get by with, but especially with power moves like this it makes one stop to think about where things may head.

I expect that Ableton will REALLY knock our socks off with their next release. And that it will also include amazing updates to Operator and Sampler that will make it's current loyal users REALLY feel appreciated

Hercules Robinson · Post by **Hercules Robinson** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:15 pm

You only know if its any good if you take it for a spin. Its all about feel.

sqook · Post by **sqook** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:16 pm

ChiDJ wrote:

Looks a bit like LIVE eh?

You do realize that editing MIDI like this has been possible long before logic 8... this release is just the first one that puts it into a single screen. Previously you could just put an arrangement window and MIDI editor window next to each other in a screenset.

The concept of having an arrangement view on top + MIDI editing below was definitely not introduced by live. Their implementation of it is good, though, and perhaps apple was inspired by this when they decided to go for a one-window layout.

And speaking of "inspiring", I hope that this release encourages the abes to bundle operator and sampler with live. A boy can dream, I guess.

Pasha · Post by **Pasha** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:23 pm

I think Apple want us to be locked in.
By removing the dongle they stay sure that cracks will be around no matter what protection they use. However, to make it run you will need something you can't crack: A Mac.
The price-no-dongle-all-of-this-stuff move was very good from Apple.
IMHO Live has its strong selling points, but one for all it's cross platform, runs on Macs and PC. You can switch back and forth as many times you have serials from the Abes. Think about it guys. I work in the IT industry and they're all only thinking about new ways to milk us.
However I'm happy with my MacBook so far and I play along and compose with Live, being happy all the time.

- Best
- Pasha

stale bread · Post by **stale bread** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:27 pm

Live 7 better have a slicer!!!

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:32 pm

now that blahblahblah has blahblah its clear that blahblah will blahblah all over blah.

shaneblyth · Post by **shaneblyth** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:40 pm

OvertoneZero wrote:God damn, Apple's like the new Microsoft!

how do you figure that.. when has Microsoft dropped the price in half on one of there products , updated it to new improved version at the same time and added several other programs it sold that where not cheap in as well.. Check Vista pricing.. it should be haf that of XP and that should be the ultimate version.