Ableton Forum

Tone Deft wrote:

Fizmarble wrote:Homosexuality is unnatural, that is a fact. If the primary reason for sexual intercourse is to procreate, then homosexuality can in no way logically come from that action. It is not the norm (look at every other species of animal on the planet for the norm).

well, interesting to chat with you but when you start in on the homophobia I'm done with you. that attitude pisses me off to no end. I'll refrain from venting on you and leave you to the forum animals, watch yer cornhole!!

It's old Victorian programming. The hegemonic Western perception of "Sexuality as productivity" whereas in the East, Erotica is far more common. This guy has no idea.

Someone needs to read Foucault's History of Sexuality

or realize there's more to sex than procreation!

Fizmarble wrote:I guess I will have to define some terms.

Normal - 1. conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural.

-Dictionary.com

So.....Homosexual would be normal if, 51% or more of all species engaged in it.

Let me replace one sin with another.

So.....Cannibalism would be normal if, 51% or more of all species engaged in it.

Eat up, folks. Just not on me!

So.....sexual promiscuity would be normal if, 51% or more of all species engaged in it.

I guess fucking anything that moves

pixelbox wrote:

Tone Deft wrote: tell that to your religious leader. I'd love to hear what he was to say.

Uh...who is that? Like I said, I read the book for myself, so I guess I am my own religious leader? I dunno.

P.S. - I suppose in this context, "cherry picking" is selectively choosing something, while "gleaning" at least for me, is to try an understand something as much as it is possible for me to wrap my tiny brain around. You should try that.

no, gleaning is the act of going through a field after the harvest collecting the leftover harvest that the machines/pickers missed. I don't see your context fitting that at all. but this is a semantic sidetrack.

so you're more like the guy on a desert island reading his bible, accepting christianity? you don't go to church or discuss your beliefs with others on a regular basis. no sarcasm intended here, or a 'straw man' argument (they're all the rage), just trying to clarify.

Fizmarble wrote:I guess I will have to define some terms.

Normal - 1. conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural.

-Dictionary.com

So.....Homosexual would be normal if, 51% or more of all species engaged in it.

Nobody argued or pointed out that homosexuality is the norm. You stated that it was unnatural, and you are wrong, period. It occurs all the time in nature, therefore it is natural, fact.
You aren't any fun to debate with. You simply aren't thinking out your statements clearly enough.

kabuki wrote:

Fizmarble wrote:I guess I will have to define some terms.

Normal - 1. conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural.

-Dictionary.com

So.....Homosexual would be normal if, 51% or more of all species engaged in it.

So, it's not about morality. It's about conformity. And if 51% of the world murdered, you would do it?

I was going to bring up a point about homosexual intercourse among the Bonobo apes, but they are 99% human and we evolved from them, so nevermind. They should know better.

Read my previous post about it why it's wrong, nothing to do with normal. My comment was directed to whoever thought that homosexuality was natural. It appears in nature, but I was refering to this definition - "in conformity with the ordinary course of nature; not unusual or exceptional."

I was using terms like natural and normal, because it relates to how you think of things. You were told that we came from apes, and you believe it, so I knew that those would be recognizable terms for you. Unfortunately you didn't inherit reason from the science books, so my analogies ungraspable.

Tone Deft wrote:

kabuki wrote:Mr. Marble. You keep bringing up this Strawman argument. Sounds like another Christian doublespeak tactic.

Please explain this Strawman concept, or simply provide a link.

I am assuming it will be doublespeak and fuzzy logic. Let's hear it.

straw man argument is when you make a weak argument representing the other side's position then knock it down, like a straw man.

IMO it's just as weak to use it as it is to claim it.

Ah! I see. So basically, he had no answer to my challenge but to respond with an attack.

glu wrote:

Tone Deft wrote:

Fizmarble wrote:Homosexuality is unnatural, that is a fact. If the primary reason for sexual intercourse is to procreate, then homosexuality can in no way logically come from that action. It is not the norm (look at every other species of animal on the planet for the norm).

well, interesting to chat with you but when you start in on the homophobia I'm done with you. that attitude pisses me off to no end. I'll refrain from venting on you and leave you to the forum animals, watch yer cornhole!!

It's old Victorian programming. The hegemonic Western perception of "Sexuality as productivity" whereas in the East, Erotica is far more common. This guy has no idea.

Someone needs to read Foucault's History of Sexuality

or realize there's more to sex than procreation!

and it's a simpleton's view of gays about how they like their sex and that's all there is to being gay. I don't care how the cross hugger likes his sex, yet he judges a group of people on what they supposedly do behind closed doors in their own bedrooms.

you know, some of the most fucked up ideas come from christians, for example the shit they used to say happened at Marilyn Manson shows.

Fizmarble wrote:Homosexuality is unnatural, that is a fact. If the primary reason for sexual intercourse is to procreate, then homosexuality can in no way logically come from that action. It is not the norm (look at every other species of animal on the planet for the norm).

Loads of animals practice homosexuality. Masturbation is quite common too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sex ... rbation.29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_animals

I know they're Wikipedia articles but they're good Wikipedia articles.

noisetonepause wrote:

Fizmarble wrote:Homosexuality is unnatural, that is a fact. If the primary reason for sexual intercourse is to procreate, then homosexuality can in no way logically come from that action. It is not the norm (look at every other species of animal on the planet for the norm).

Loads of animals practice homosexuality. Masturbation is quite common too.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kXwUM4sX0Ts <-- the kangaroo

Fizmarble wrote:

kabuki wrote:

Fizmarble wrote:I guess I will have to define some terms.

Normal - 1. conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural.

-Dictionary.com

So.....Homosexual would be normal if, 51% or more of all species engaged in it.

So, it's not about morality. It's about conformity. And if 51% of the world murdered, you would do it?

I was going to bring up a point about homosexual intercourse among the Bonobo apes, but they are 99% human and we evolved from them, so nevermind. They should know better.

Read my previous post about it why it's wrong, nothing to do with normal. My comment was directed to whoever thought that homosexuality was natural. It appears in nature, but I was refering to this definition - "in conformity with the ordinary course of nature; not unusual or exceptional."

I was using terms like natural and normal, because it relates to how you think of things. You were told that we came from apes, and you believe it, so I knew that those would be recognizable terms for you. Unfortunately you didn't inherit reason from the science books, so my analogies ungraspable.

natural (dictionary.com, first meaning)

existing in or formed by nature

or websters:

having or constituting a classification based on features existing in nature

kabuki wrote:Mr. Marble. You keep bringing up this Strawman argument. Sounds like another Christian doublespeak tactic.

Please explain this Strawman concept, or simply provide a link.

I am assuming it will be doublespeak and fuzzy logic. Let's hear it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

I am not sure linking to things will illistrate my point. Perhaps if I authored a science book you would understand.

SHIT, IT'S NORMAL!!!!

"No species has been found in which homosexual behaviour has not been shown to exist, with the exception of species that never have sex at all, such as sea urchins and aphis. Moreover, a part of the animal kingdom is hermaphroditic, truly bisexual. For them, homosexuality is not an issue."

see previous posts for source

kabuki wrote:So.....sexual promiscuity would be normal if, 51% or more of all species engaged in it.

I guess fucking anything that moves

Bingo! More than 51% of the species are sexually promiscuous, so..... Like I said man, you need to leave this stuff to people who think it out a little you know?

kabuki wrote:

pixelbox wrote:Oh, and by the way, Satan is a pussy and has no effect on me whatsoever.

Wow. Bold statement from a "Christian".

Isn't the reason god sent his "son" down to die for us is because of the "Sins of the Fathers" cursing each of us with the inability of free will? No act except accepting Jesus can get you into heaven because you are powerless to resist satan and evil? Glory to god because without him you would fall to evil? Sounds like without god as a crutch, you wouldsoever be effected by satan.

Nope. You have it completely wrong, and I suggest re-reading or stop listening to whoever told you this. When man was first created, he had DOMINION of the earth. Satan tempted man, and man, like an idiot, listened to him. Therefore, we lost dominion, however, in many places in the bible it tells us that Satan is a DEFEATED foe, and thus, has no power over us except the power we give him. Jesus (God in man form), did what he did to fufill the law (wheras, Satan is actually the ultimate lawyer, and will point fingers and accuse you of all your wrongs, thus trying to condemn you). Now man (all of us, even Christians) are full of sin, and our works (to do good, or whatever) are as filthy rags in the eyes of God. Therefore you cannot get the heaven through your own works. Jesus fulfilled the law as I mentioned earlier, by, being without sin, died a sinners death (crucifixion, Roman-style). God gives us this redemption freely as a gift, if only we accept it. That is why not only can you not get into heaven by works, there is also no way you can get the gift taken away from you, because God's promises are forever and always. Does this mean that we have a permanent "get out of jail free" card? Absolutely not. It's not permission to do whatever the heck we want, but it does make the whole point of it moot. You are perfectly allowed to fall down, make a mistake, dust yourself off, and keep going. God doesn't want your sacrifice, he wants your obedience. But not obedience out of fear or just "following" orders, he wants your obedience out of love.

So as you can see, Satan has little or nothing to do with it, as long as when "his voice" is in your head, you tell him to STFU.

I could go on, but why write the bible here for you? Go read it for yourself and YOU be the judge.