Anybody else NOT excitedly anticipating Live 8?

[beats me]

Besides hoping for session automation, group/folder tracks, no more 128 parameter limit and more rack macros.

Those sound like bug fixes to me but I know that isn't the way Ableton works.

[glitchrock-buddha]

Besides hoping for session automation, group/folder tracks, no more 128 parameter limit and more rack macros.

Those sound like bug fixes to me but I know that isn't the way Ableton works.

Although I agree that they are badly needed, I wouldn't go so far as to call them bugs. Certainly they are enhancements.

I'll add that for session clip automation, I really hope they do it in a sensible way, which still allows for tweaking of the parameter which has been automated. Ex. Turn on overdub, record parameter changes via knob, turn off overdub, then the knob can still be tweaked with the automation still going from relative high to low within the range that the knob is currently at (like it is now). I just hope this functionality stays. And I suppose this type of automation will require certain modes, such as if you want it to overwrite, latch etc.

[ThrowAway]

NO

[forge]

I'm not very familiar with the pluggo effects quality

I personally don't think Pluggo's that great...

it would be cool if the individual components come from Ableton's devices

[hoffman2k]

I'm not very familiar with the pluggo effects quality

I personally don't think Pluggo's that great...

it would be cool if the individual components come from Ableton's devices

You're kidding, right?
What do you mean with components? Mono Reverb parts? Number boxes? Delays that don't interpolate?
You don't take a ford fiesta apart to build a ferrari...

[forge]

I personally don't think Pluggo's that great...

it would be cool if the individual components come from Ableton's devices

You're kidding, right?
What do you mean with components? Mono Reverb parts? Number boxes? Delays that don't interpolate?
You don't take a ford fiesta apart to build a ferrari...

if we're talking building our own devices like Reaktor, TBH it was so long ago I don't feel comfortable saying, but I was kind of agreeing with the post above because I seem to remember a few years ago downloading the Pluggo plug-ins and being a bit unimpressed - maybe they've changed or I didn't give them enough of a chance, but I have some vague recollection of not being into them

But I would love to take pieces of Ableton effects and make others - like taking an LFO or filter and putting it somewhere else - how often have we requested an LFO plug-in?

I am imagining for A-74 an extra editor environment that you can grab a whole bunch of the modules that make up the Abe devices and string them together how you like

what are you imagining?

[TITBAG]

BUGGO more like

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA

[freqn]

Personally I would appreciate more the longer development cycle of 2-3 years with a LOT more beta testing being done by the actual company and not by me. Maybe then they would be able to dedicate some staff & time to implementing feature requests of the user-base, instead of just implementing whatever new marketing strategy they have for the product line. ie very very pricey sample libraries.

Definitely!

[hoffman2k]

it would be cool if the individual components come from Ableton's devices

You're kidding, right?
What do you mean with components? Mono Reverb parts? Number boxes? Delays that don't interpolate?
You don't take a ford fiesta apart to build a ferrari...

if we're talking building our own devices like Reaktor, TBH it was so long ago I don't feel comfortable saying, but I was kind of agreeing with the post above because I seem to remember a few years ago downloading the Pluggo plug-ins and being a bit unimpressed - maybe they've changed or I didn't give them enough of a chance, but I have some vague recollection of not being into them

But I would love to take pieces of Ableton effects and make others - like taking an LFO or filter and putting it somewhere else - how often have we requested an LFO plug-in?

I am imagining for A-74 an extra editor environment that you can grab a whole bunch of the modules that make up the Abe devices and string them together how you like

what are you imagining?

I wasn't into pluggo when I first found it either. But thats mainly the fault of the plugins I tried. Once you know how easy it is to make a pluggo, you'll get into it. But thats only when you create your own plugins for own purposes.
PC users got a bad taste of it because just like runtime, it requires quicktime to be installed. Its usually trivial shit like that that make or break the opinion of stuff like this.

As for what I have in mind... Full Max compatibility.
Mess around with the LiveAPI. You'll see that there is more to live than meets the eye (or the user for that matter).
You want to slap the LFO of one device on another. I'm saying I want an LFO modulated by an LFO, preferably with custom waveforms/envelopes.
I understood you as saying that they should provide us with the elements used to build the current devices. My reply to that is that those elements are flawed and we need more alternatives, especially custom ones.

How do you expect to build a Delay controlled by an LFO if the components of the Delay don't even allow you to control it manually in real-time without clicking and popping all over the place?

[forge]

You're kidding, right?
What do you mean with components? Mono Reverb parts? Number boxes? Delays that don't interpolate?
You don't take a ford fiesta apart to build a ferrari...

if we're talking building our own devices like Reaktor, TBH it was so long ago I don't feel comfortable saying, but I was kind of agreeing with the post above because I seem to remember a few years ago downloading the Pluggo plug-ins and being a bit unimpressed - maybe they've changed or I didn't give them enough of a chance, but I have some vague recollection of not being into them

But I would love to take pieces of Ableton effects and make others - like taking an LFO or filter and putting it somewhere else - how often have we requested an LFO plug-in?

I am imagining for A-74 an extra editor environment that you can grab a whole bunch of the modules that make up the Abe devices and string them together how you like

what are you imagining?

I wasn't into pluggo when I first found it either. But thats mainly the fault of the plugins I tried. Once you know how easy it is to make a pluggo, you'll get into it. But thats only when you create your own plugins for own purposes.
PC users got a bad taste of it because just like runtime, it requires quicktime to be installed. Its usually trivial shit like that that make or break the opinion of stuff like this.

As for what I have in mind... Full Max compatibility.
Mess around with the LiveAPI. You'll see that there is more to live than meets the eye (or the user for that matter).
You want to slap the LFO of one device on another. I'm saying I want an LFO modulated by an LFO, preferably with custom waveforms/envelopes.
I understood you as saying that they should provide us with the elements used to build the current devices. My reply to that is that those elements are flawed and we need more alternatives, especially custom ones.

How do you expect to build a Delay controlled by an LFO if the components of the Delay don't even allow you to control it manually in real-time without clicking and popping all over the place?

to be honest I will be one of the leechers who downloads what other people do for a while I'd say, I cant see me having time to build plug-ins

All I really want is an LFO device, better routing, but I feel like I've got enough devices to last a lifetime, I don't need another bloody device, I want the core functionality like automation to work properly

I'm very curious to see what A-74 will bring, but it's still more of missing what's needed most for me - I want the program as it is now to work better

[Angstrom]

I agree with Forge to a degree, and at the same time completely disagree.

I don't need more 'Devices' or plugins, but I do want to be able to reconfigure what is already there.

We have a lot of power at our fingertips with this app, but we can't control half of it unless we want to get seriously into learning Bomes, LiveAPI and Python, GlovePIE, Loopback, Max, etc.

I would prefer that the existing features become more 'exposed' and that users can create their own 'simplicity' by making Live 'appropriate' for themselves.
Each Live user is different, each with their own working methodology.

Simplicity is key to fun. If each user can make an interface that suits them, then their interface is now 'simple' to them.
Ableton currently hide the complexity away, but this is not simplicity, it is actually obfuscation. (hiding)

Simplicity When a user is presented with a task-appropriate interface that is simplicity through suitability.
With so many Live users and so many varied working practices it is impossible for Live to deliver a one-size-fits-all interface and expect 100% satisfaction. The only people who can design 10 million variations of 'simplicity through suitability' are the users themselves.

I hope the A-74 thing liberates the potential that is already there

I don't want yet another overlay (through PLUGGO) which merely allows me to run a GUI that someone with MAx made me, that I then had to route through a virtual midi pipe so it can control the volume.
That would be complex and pointless.

let me take control of my interface!

[hoffman2k]

I don't want yet another overlay (through PLUGGO) which merely allows me to run a GUI that someone with MAx made me, that I then had to route through a virtual midi pipe so it can control the volume.
That would be complex and pointless.

let me take control of my interface!

A pluggo is more than a GUI alone. You could do your accounting in Live if you really wanted to. Its as much as a plugin as another, but yeah.. Its crippled because it needs so much 3rd party routing.
Being able to run a pluggo like a native device would do the trick.

I want to take control of my interface too, but there are too few useful elements in Live.
Volume meters, Macros and Waveforms.. Only 2 out of 3 can ever be exposed and only for 1 track.
As far as designing GUI's that look and integrate like Live native devices, its not that much of a stretch to make something work. Half of it is already done in the plugin spec. All that remains is rearranging the GUI elements and maybe some customizations. Otherwise known as Performance View in Max 5.

[forge]

I agree with Forge to a degree, and at the same time completely disagree.

I don't need more 'Devices' or plugins, but I do want to be able to reconfigure what is already there.

We have a lot of power at our fingertips with this app, but we can't control half of it unless we want to get seriously into learning Bomes, LiveAPI and Python, GlovePIE, Loopback, Max, etc.

I would prefer that the existing features become more 'exposed' and that users can create their own 'simplicity' by making Live 'appropriate' for themselves.
Each Live user is different, each with their own working methodology.

Simplicity is key to fun. If each user can make an interface that suits them, then their interface is now 'simple' to them.
Ableton currently hide the complexity away, but this is not simplicity, it is actually obfuscation. (hiding)

Simplicity When a user is presented with a task-appropriate interface that is simplicity through suitability.
With so many Live users and so many varied working practices it is impossible for Live to deliver a one-size-fits-all interface and expect 100% satisfaction. The only people who can design 10 million variations of 'simplicity through suitability' are the users themselves.

I hope the A-74 thing liberates the potential that is already there

I don't want yet another overlay (through PLUGGO) which merely allows me to run a GUI that someone with MAx made me, that I then had to route through a virtual midi pipe so it can control the volume.
That would be complex and pointless.

let me take control of my interface!

oh I pretty much agree with what you said there - control is something I still feel is very lacking and in fact in reality that is probably what I want it to be the most, and having seen Robert's Monodeck max patch and also heard him say "the C74 thing is simple, probably exactly what you expect it to be" then I think the most likely scenario will be something like that

I guess I haven't played with Max enough to really know what to expect

[forge]

I don't want yet another overlay (through PLUGGO) which merely allows me to run a GUI that someone with MAx made me, that I then had to route through a virtual midi pipe so it can control the volume.
That would be complex and pointless.

let me take control of my interface!

A pluggo is more than a GUI alone. You could do your accounting in Live if you really wanted to. Its as much as a plugin as another, but yeah.. Its crippled because it needs so much 3rd party routing.
Being able to run a pluggo like a native device would do the trick.

I want to take control of my interface too, but there are too few useful elements in Live.
Volume meters, Macros and Waveforms.. Only 2 out of 3 can ever be exposed and only for 1 track.
As far as designing GUI's that look and integrate like Live native devices, its not that much of a stretch to make something work. Half of it is already done in the plugin spec. All that remains is rearranging the GUI elements and maybe some customizations. Otherwise known as Performance View in Max 5.

yeah getting rid of 3rd party things like MY/IAC etc would be brilliant

but as for changing the interface looks on screen, to be honest I'm not really interested in that too much, I'd rather it was easier to setup and control via hardware

so in other words, being able to select and change racks remotely is far more important than how they look - I'd rather more ways of getting away from monitor/keybd/mse

[hoffman2k]

I don't want yet another overlay (through PLUGGO) which merely allows me to run a GUI that someone with MAx made me, that I then had to route through a virtual midi pipe so it can control the volume.
That would be complex and pointless.

let me take control of my interface!

A pluggo is more than a GUI alone. You could do your accounting in Live if you really wanted to. Its as much as a plugin as another, but yeah.. Its crippled because it needs so much 3rd party routing.
Being able to run a pluggo like a native device would do the trick.

I want to take control of my interface too, but there are too few useful elements in Live.
Volume meters, Macros and Waveforms.. Only 2 out of 3 can ever be exposed and only for 1 track.
As far as designing GUI's that look and integrate like Live native devices, its not that much of a stretch to make something work. Half of it is already done in the plugin spec. All that remains is rearranging the GUI elements and maybe some customizations. Otherwise known as Performance View in Max 5.

yeah getting rid of 3rd party things like MY/IAC etc would be brilliant

but as for changing the interface looks on screen, to be honest I'm not really interested in that too much, I'd rather it was easier to setup and control via hardware

so in other words, being able to select and change racks remotely is far more important than how they look - I'd rather more ways of getting away from monitor/keybd/mse

There's a difference between having to glance at something or having to attentively stare at something. I wonna get away from the screen too, but since its there it might as well serve as a cockpit.