OT: for bush supporters

special ed · Post by **special ed** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:26 am

demo, its like this, i obviously had to go to extreme words to get you to make a few valid points, whether i agree with you completely or not. it seems as though i need to go to that level to get conservatives to say something from their own minds and not the fox news channel. i actually see that you are a thinking conservative which is good. most conservatives i find are not. you say that it is not a war against civilians, if thats what you believe, then thats what you believe. i however, have personally heard the soldiers before they went into training bragging about how they are going to go kill themselves some iraqis, as though it was like dear hunting season. that paints a very bad picture in my head about the u.s. i have seen the signs on the wall in business that read "kill them all, let allah sort them out" that does not paint a very good picture either. i have seen the ugliest side of these bushvotes, and how many of them are look at it like its a game of cowboys and indians. i seen how they already have completely dehumanized the arab world, and just refer to them as "sand niggers". ive fucking seen it and heard. from who? from blind patriotic pigs. thats who. im not saying that you are that. im not saying you are personally a piece of shite. but those people are. and i guess im having a hard time making the distinction between you and them. after all im sure you both have the "god bless america" and "support our troops" stickers on you cars, along with a bush vote. but i will say that you make some good points that i can agree on, in fact ill go as far to say, that you might be the first bushvote that is showing me that there is some real human thinking going on as opposed to the bigotry ive witnessed from the other bushvotes. whether i completely agree with you is another story. but for the record i hope you live long and prosper and have the life that you want, we both want peace (yes i really do want peace, i just find it to be impossible with an administration that profits from the war) perhaps maybe it is their goal to divide us like this, if so, i guess im falling on one side of it. the reality is, i dont know you, you dont know me. we have a disagreement on a discussion board knowing nothing about the other persons background or anything. all that appears are hateful words, which i take responsiblity for in saying, because it is the truth of how i feel towards many people right now. perhaps if i knew you, your point of view could make more sense to me as it pertained to your life. if you knew me, it could be the same thing.

special ed · Post by **special ed** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:58 am

sps1

Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 33

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 6:09 am Post subject:

special ed wrote:

first of all, who gave saddam the weapons? and who was his ally when he did those things to his own people? you never saw him and rummy together as political buddies discussing politics? the rest of the world sees it, where do you miss that?

second the iraqi people dont want the u.s. there. its obvious. those insurgents and terrorists you talk about are just iraqi nationalists. you invaded them. remember?

as far as the beheadings go i specificly stated 2 instances where i feel no sympathy for the victim and one where i have total empathy. it depends on the person. i have no empathy for the dead u.s. troops however, and i have stated why. if i destroyed your family when i broke into your house, i certainly dont deserve to go spend time with mine again. like i said its called karma.

lastly, you did decide to vote for bush. now accept the division and hostilty that is naturally going to follow. you honestly think things are going to be the same again? no they are not. the division will just seperate more from here on out, whether you or i like it or not. we chose our sides here. and sides eventually collide, nobody on this side is going to be hopping back to your side. we had one civil war, and it is quite possible that this will breed enough civil unrest for another one. not that i personally want one, but its the real world here. bushs fantasyland will be shattered.

just agree to disagree? that simple? this is beyond diplomatic politics at this point. im just being honest. there is a big fucking crisis in the world now that america seems to be creating and exploiting. the rest of the world is not so isolated as the u.s. , so they are feeling it. get out of fantasy. live with the consequences of your decision. you think you can support putting a piece of garbage like that into office again and we are just out of blind nationalsm and blind patriotism are going to accept that? if you believe that, then perhaps you also believe the "mission accomplished" sign that bush had behind him 18 months ago.

I think that you believe that America has no right to be in Iraq. I also believe that you know the Middle East is a huge problem, but that the United States has no right to deal with it because of the ill seeds that we have sown. I read your comments and I begin to understand that you think the United States deserves to get what we have coming to us because of our past transgressions. There are many in the world who believe this. Maybe it's true. Maybe the United States should be taken down a peg or two on the global scale, or possibly we even deserve to be destroyed altogether. And even more so now that the majority of the US gave George Bush to a second term.
I however think that although we did entrench ourselves into this mess in the middle east a long time ago, that we now owe it to ourselves to dig ourselves out and solve the problem somehow. Actually we owe it to the world, and so maybe the Unitied States should go it alone. The truth is though that if we win in Iraq and then in the Middle East, the whole of western civilization and the world will reap the benefits. If we loose then we face the consequences with the weight largely on our shoulders. That's fair enough, but believe me this is a global power struggle that is going on. There are many nations in the world community that would love to see the USA fail and fall, each for their own reasons. Since I am an American, I wish us to suceed in bringing some semblance of democracy to the Middle East and in doing so I hope we can mend some of the fences thoughout the world by making the world a safer place for civilized mankind. At this point only history will record if we were correct about Iraq or not, so I will wait to judge. However if using conventional force in Iraq and Afganistan has the possibility of convincing Iran, North Korea, Syria, ect.... that we will topple them and we have the strength to do so; If this statement translates into the US being able to negotiate with them without the threat of nuclear weapons being used in a successive war, then we have suceeded in Iraq and Afganistan. The middle east situation is something we brought apon ourselves and now we are dealing with it strategically. More strategically than many of you think.
I just want everyone on this board to understand that there are many among us that wish the US will fail in Iraq and lose power(especially economic) on the world stage.

well, i dont know what side you fall on, but i can see you are a thinking person and i respect that.

special ed · Post by **special ed** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:05 am

noisetonepause

Joined: 28 Dec 2002
Posts: 868
Location: Nivå, Denmark

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:39 pm Post subject:

special ed wrote:

second the iraqi people dont want the u.s. there. its obvious. those insurgents and terrorists you talk about are just iraqi nationalists. you invaded them. remember?

That's just wrong. Some of them do. I'm quite sure the great part of them do... I'll see if I can dig up some numbers, but I'm quite sure you're in the wrong.

-Paws

i dont know about that forge, there might be a few people there on th u.s. bandwagon, but at this point there are alot of pissed off iraqis, and for good reason they pissed off.http://controlroommovie.com/site/01.html check out control room if you havent seen it yet.

forge · Post by **forge** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:48 am

Not sure what you dont know about but the movie looks cool

I saw a doco about AlJazeera's coverage of the war (when the bombing of their hotel actually happened) and it was so obvious it was deliberate. At the same time their website got hacked and replaced with a picture of north america with a big stars and stripes over it and the words "Freedom" all over it.

The people were just genuine hard working journalists trying to cover the war fairly and acurately. I burst into tears after it and said to my girlfriend 'they're the good guys.'

Then I took loads of cocaine and made demented techno to march away the fury.

special ed · Post by **special ed** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:57 am

i just bought the control room dvd. it is fucking crazy. it gives such a different perspective than what we get here in the states. the movie itself is not propaganda but rather behind the scenes truth. you would be surprised by how much the u.s. military staged certain events to make themselves look like "liberators". i have nothing now but disdain fot the u.s. military.

got anymore of that coke? or some green? i actually need to be sedated now i think. as one can tell from the majority of my posts here.

forge · Post by **forge** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:24 am

special ed wrote:i just bought the control room dvd. it is fucking crazy. it gives such a different perspective than what we get here in the states. the movie itself is not propaganda but rather behind the scenes truth. you would be surprised by how much the u.s. military staged certain events to make themselves look like "liberators". i have nothing now but disdain fot the u.s. military.

got anymore of that coke? or some green? i actually need to be sedated now i think. as one can tell from the majority of my posts here.

virtual green = Ableton live - time to take a forum holiday and put some of that energy into some tunage my friend. Think of it like Surfing - if we've been waiting for the inspiration wave, this election was it - ride dude ride!

A DJ · Post by **A DJ** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:25 pm

forge wrote: Then I took loads of cocaine and made demented techno to march away the fury.

ISNT THAT ILLEGAL!!!!!

making demented techno?

ps. hope u had fun

forge · Post by **forge** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:17 pm

Just in case you'd all forgotten...

Martyn · Post by **Martyn** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:50 pm

Someone should do a similar thing with Tony Blair/The Joker from batman, another striking similarity.

forge · Post by **forge** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:58 pm

Martyn wrote:

Someone should do a similar thing with Tony Blair/The Joker from batman, another striking similarity.

yor a designey type - think you just volunteered!!

DjDEMO · Post by **DjDEMO** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:03 pm

Special Ed...

I'm glad you finally see me the way I see myself. Most of my friends are liberal, and they all know I'm conservative, yet I'm also open on alot of issues. I also know there are a few Dems out there who have some conservative values. Goes both ways I guess. Which is good I think. To blindly follow either side is mindless. I know people like this too. Whichever side they are on, they go along with everything. Their guy is ALWAYS right.

Look, I see some of the "kill 'em all" attitude like you mentioned, but I can say for a fact, that thats not the mentality of most republicans. As far as the soldiers...of course your always going to get the few who cant wait to get there to fight..sorta psycho. I dont think the majority are like that. I have friends who are there, and I KNOW they are not like that. There are plenty of folks there who are HONESTLY trying to do the right thing, whether you agree with the original mission or not.

I can tell your passionate about this, and ultimately want peace...so it bothered me to see you say you want our soldiers and workers over there to die. Death is not good on either side. The only people I honestly want dead, are the terrorists..not civilians. I know that you know the forces over there are not intentionally trying to kill civilians. HAs it happened? Yes. Has it happened intentionally? Probably yes, in isolated cases. Is it the US agenda? No. I can only imagine what its like being over there being shot at etc. Who knows what frame of mind we'd be in. Its gotta be pretty bad.

This is going to take a loooooong time to see if it's ultimately successful. Like I said before though...I think it would only be successful if they fought for their own freedom..if they truly wanted it. It needs to be realized..not forced. Peace man.

special ed · Post by **special ed** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:51 pm

forge that is the funniest fucking thing ive seen. i cant stop laughing my chest hurts now. did you put that together? its fucking brilliant, i want that on a tshirt.

forge · Post by **forge** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:03 pm

special ed wrote:forge that is the funniest fucking thing ive seen. i cant stop laughing my chest hurts now. did you put that together? its fucking brilliant, i want that on a tshirt.

seriously you haven't seen it before?

http://www.bushorchimp.com

glad to be of service!

special ed · Post by **special ed** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:17 pm

to top

DjDEMO

Joined: 31 Dec 2003
Posts: 34

Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:03 pm Post subject:

Special Ed...

I'm glad you finally see me the way I see myself. Most of my friends are liberal, and they all know I'm conservative, yet I'm also open on alot of issues. I also know there are a few Dems out there who have some conservative values. Goes both ways I guess. Which is good I think. To blindly follow either side is mindless. I know people like this too. Whichever side they are on, they go along with everything. Their guy is ALWAYS right.

Look, I see some of the "kill 'em all" attitude like you mentioned, but I can say for a fact, that thats not the mentality of most republicans. As far as the soldiers...of course your always going to get the few who cant wait to get there to fight..sorta psycho. I dont think the majority are like that. I have friends who are there, and I KNOW they are not like that. There are plenty of folks there who are HONESTLY trying to do the right thing, whether you agree with the original mission or not.

I can tell your passionate about this, and ultimately want peace...so it bothered me to see you say you want our soldiers and workers over there to die. Death is not good on either side. The only people I honestly want dead, are the terrorists..not civilians. I know that you know the forces over there are not intentionally trying to kill civilians. HAs it happened? Yes. Has it happened intentionally? Probably yes, in isolated cases. Is it the US agenda? No. I can only imagine what its like being over there being shot at etc. Who knows what frame of mind we'd be in. Its gotta be pretty bad.

This is going to take a loooooong time to see if it's ultimately successful. Like I said before though...I think it would only be successful if they fought for their own freedom..if they truly wanted it. It needs to be realized..not forced. Peace man.

i dont blindly go one way or another. there are things im liberal about and things im conservative about. however i dont see anything conservative about a war. you say that you want the terrorists dead. what exactly is a terrorist? its a very vague term. if i said that i respected bin laden because hes sticking up for palestinians, would you think im a piece of shite? im willing to bet yes on that one. what is a terrorist? a belligerant u.s. soldier that wants to go shoot himself an iraqi? a palestinian woman that blows herself up in a crowded area in tel aviv after the israeli army murdered her brother, her son, her husband, and her father? terrorist is a subjective term. when the indians were still trying to fight for the land, were they terrorists then? when african slaves wanted to revolt, were they terrorists? if you had the media back then like today, they would have been called terrorists as well. why is it that here in the western world, if a christian or jew murder and pillage for their fucked up zionist religious beliefs you accept it? but if a muslim does it they are a terrorists and should be killed? that is a double standard.
also bush has the evangilical christians in his pocket. tell me, who would jesus bomb? as a matter of fact , didnt jesus say to turn the other cheek? that didnt happen with 911. does bush think hes god? apparently so. you know a tree by its fruits, and i havent seen a good fruit fall of that tree. i guess maybe for myself i need to learn to have a bit more compassion for the people he has decieved. but its very hard at this point.

mcconaghy · Post by **mcconaghy** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:19 pm

forge wrote:Just in case you'd all forgotten...

http://uk.download.yahoo.com/ne/fu/oa/bushorchimp.jpg

Now this is just simply insulting.... to chimps.