robtronik wrote:Yep, I live here in the U.S. It's "my country" as you might say. The ridicule that I have for the arguments put forth here are about the conpiracy theories that surround 9/11. Most of the theories that put forth about government being complicit in the attacks are apparently due to all the "holes" in the version(s?) that have been reported so far. many also try to use said hole as proof that there was a conspiracy! This makes me laugh. How about the reason for the "holes" in the version that has been captured to date are there because we simply don't have the data (yet).
Firstly Rob - cheers for the good natured response. Unfortunately it's highly unlikely we are ever going to get any more data - the twin towers site became the biggest example of a 'tampered' crime scene on record. 3000 murders and Bush sells off all the forensics asap. The workers on site categorically stated that they directed recovery of 3 out of 4 black box recorders - the official line is that they were not recovered. The firemen who spoke out shortly afterwards, on any subject from suspected demo charges, bombs in the basements or even the recovery of their fellows were essentially stamped upon by Guiliani's new stooge heading the NYFD. The same Guiliani who abandoned his brand new custom built Emergency Centre in WTC7 on the day in question, to set up operations in a pizza parlour, before the most mysterious building collapse on record took place.
How about the fact that there are completely reasonable physical reasons (corroborated by reputable scientists whose very nature is built on skeptism and historical precedence) for the physics of that day and what happened to the pentagon and how the towers fell?
Sure - we always have to entertain the possibility that wrongful conclusions can be made. But when the coincidences start to mount into the hundreds you'd imagine that the US government would be falling over itself to clear it's name - sadly no. Instead we're given 5 frames of shyte taken 10 ft to the side of 5 frames of shyte that have been available for years along with public statements about quashing the 'miniscule' number of 'conspiracy theorists' - if 66%, according to a recent poll, of New Yorkers believe in Governmental involvement you can imagine what numbers there are around the world. There were at least 3 other civillian cameras close to the flightpath/scene that were grabbed almost immediately afterwards and have never been seen again. Even the ATC data records have been destroyed - perhaps because no one would've believed that a piss poor pilot, who can't even hold a Cessna 172 in a landing pattern, is supposed to have streaked directly towards Dumsfeld's office but, on deciding that the easy course clearly wouldn't please Allah, pulls a kick ass 270 degree 700 ft drop turn (that probably should've stalled the plane given the turn rate) around the Pentagon before bringing the thing in on the deck? I probably shouldn't even mention that I was totally unaware that 757's fold in their wings to narrow the plane's profile down to less than 20ft in expectation of an impact - how exactly does an entire wing (and attached 6 tonne titanium Pratt & Whitney) pass STRAIGHT THROUGH glass windows leaving no discernable damage? Explain the physics to me mate!
As to the Towers there's even more odd stuff. It's pretty clear that the second impact occured on the corner - with the majority of the jet fuel exploding in a large orange fireball outside of the structure. Hence the notion that the main central struts were made unviable by a kerosene or standard temp fire is extremely questionable. Do remember these buildings were constructed to withstand such impacts nevermind a fire. Of course there's also the explosions in the basements, the fact that the firecrews who went up there reported that the fire could be contained with a couple of hoses etc etc...
Everyone that pushes for the conpiracy wants to so fully believe that their world view on governments, corporations, and nations like Isreal are somehow behind the attacks (or were complicit in it).
As I said previously can you explain their behaviour? I can't. The US press scornfully reported dancing in the streets in the Arab Middle East shortly after the attacks - yet next to nothing about 5 Israeli's (again 2 with Mossad links) dancing and filming each other in front of the scene. Trust me I don't think much of either. I at least understand the behaviour in the Middle East - I do not understand the behaviour of the Israelis. Do you?
And this makes ROTFLOL when you think about what the goals might be for such a heinious action (if it were all true)? If the goals were to subvert humanity or citizenship even further (particularly the Bush administration) etc, they certainly don't have to fly planes into a building to get what they want. It's so absurd as to be beyond reproach how absurd it is.
I have to disagree - the dissolution of American, and others, hard won freedoms has been directly brought about by these events. Congress otherwise would never have approved of the likes of pre-emptive nukes, nationwide wiretapping, no right to a civillian or jury trial, kidnapping, torture, murder and terrorism on a mass scale that makes AQ look pathetic. You're right - it's absurd. What's personally more disturbing is that there is clear evidence that the US government subverted MY country , the UK, and others into this though we didn't, unlike the Australians, recieve a monster free trade bribe for standing up to legitimise this policy of obscenity.
But again, I only started this thread to let those that think there is a conspiracy vent their lunacy so I could see how far it really goes. And then it hits me - most artists "feel things" rather than rely on "logic" in their creative endeavors. These conspiracy theories really feed that side of the brain and because artists aren't necessarily prone to using logic and reason as their "go to" tools of choice when evaluating certain ideas. They then fall prey to emotionally resonant ideas that are wildly offbase when put through the proper logical lense....Mind you, I'd like to consider myself an artist, but not to the extent that I lose my faculties of common sense as to how the real world (mostly) works.
An admirable goal I grant you - however most of the people clamouring for a proper investigation, and a complete release of all footage, I'd wager aren't musicians. Don't you think it'd be in their interests to give us everything they have - what possible reason could they have for making our belief in their ever so just cause more difficult?
@ you guys.