Ableton Forum

I see now why I skipped all that. it was a quick check of the forum and you have to actually think to digest all that.

what do you mean by

julienb wrote:the way to make communication between Live and Max seem really to be udp/osc

AFAIK (check me please)
udp is like IP (addresses and ports) but without packet checking, it's OK to lose data just keep going which is why it makes sense for audio. what's the connection to OSC?

what's up with all this? BUGS!!! Ableton can't release it cause it hasn't been focused on for testing. on top of that max 5 is pretty much a rewrite of the codebase, so forget even starting to test it, the max end is a moving target.

ummmm NOT python please, the userbase is BY FAR less musically creative a crowd to mingle with than the max/msp phreaks. no offense.

curiouser and curiouser.

Tone Deft wrote:I see now why I skipped all that. it was a quick check of the forum and you have to actually think to digest all that.

what do you mean by

julienb wrote:the way to make communication between Live and Max seem really to be udp/osc

AFAIK (check me please)
udp is like IP (addresses and ports) but without packet checking, it's OK to lose data just keep going which is why it makes sense for audio. what's the connection to OSC?

what's up with all this? BUGS!!! Ableton can't release it cause it hasn't been focused on for testing. on top of that max 5 is pretty much a rewrite of the codebase, so forget even starting to test it, the max end is a moving target.

ummmm NOT python please, the userbase is BY FAR less musically creative a crowd to mingle with than the max/msp phreaks. no offense.

curiouser and curiouser.

I'm network engineer (I know well udp,tcp,ipx and other layer of OSI model)
I don't discuss here about wishes etc.
for the moment, the only way to do several things are these protocols..
I just want to test it, and don't want to wait for Santa Claus now..


about udp.
udp doesn't contain error control
you're absolute right.
But, we all know that error control is interesting if there are a lot of "distance" between source and target (by distance, I mean, a lot of elements passed through by the signal, more or less filtering) . Here, it is just a trivial communication between two applications.
I'm quiet sure there isn't a true loss of "packets" in OSC in this case..
we could measure it... but Let's the music play nananan nnananan lalala

kewl.

did some wiki reading
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenSound_Control

Because it is a networking protocol, OSC allows musical instruments, controllers, and multimedia devices to communicate via a standard home or studio network (TCP/IP, Ethernet) or via the internet.

so OSC is another layer in the stack, be it IP/TCP, Ethernet or UDP. makes sense (I've done some monome 40h programming in max).

Live is written in C++ right? with some Python aspects to it. why do you think the Python parts are there? it's a flexible language that works with C (just read the Python wikipedia page) but why?


I can't help to think it'll be proprietary and all this will be for not, or not, who knows. once they give us this what will be bitch for next?

why do you think the Python parts are there?

People mostly write Python because it's easier. There are a lot of things that you don't have to worry about when writing Python that you do when writing C. On the other hand, you sacrifice performance and sometimes safety (although you also gain some safety because you write less code, meaning less bugs). From what I understand Python is used for some of the MIDI effects? Which would make sense, since that's a really simple thing to do that doesn't require recent computers to perform their best.

Martyn wrote:Out of interest, why not? I know nothing about programming and really wish I did. I've been advised that if I were to learn It'd be best to start with Python becuse its capable of good things while being very simple, it still looks really intimidating to me though.

If you just want to do simple stuff you can probably learn Python and be very happy with it. A lot of people are. From what I've tried of it, though, it seems unappealing and kludgy compared to e.g. Scheme that I've used quite a bit.

Programming is hard and unrewarding for the first long while - after that it's just hard:)

Tone Deft wrote: so OSC is another layer in the stack, be it IP/TCP, Ethernet or UDP. makes sense (I've done some monome 40h programming in max).

true.

Tone Deft wrote: Live is written in C++ right? with some Python aspects to it. why do you think the Python parts are there? it's a flexible language that works with C (just read the Python wikipedia page) but why?

C++ needs compilation
Python doesn't ; it can be, but it isn't imperative!
it is flexible
I'm NOT an expert in python, but I know PHP which is another scripting language.

Tone Deft wrote:
what do you mean by

julienb wrote:the way to make communication between Live and Max seem really to be udp/osc

I meant: that Live and Max can communicate by several way:
- one (obvious!): MIDI
- a second (less obvious, as we can see in this long thread): osc/udp via Python plugged as a remote control.

Tone Deft wrote:why do you think the Python parts are there?

Along with with the previous answer given by noisetonepause I'd like to add that using any type of scripting language in an application makes it a hell of a lot easier to extend. The scripts means less fidgeting for the programmers of the application with re-compilating the program for the 10.000:th time in order to check if the extra-midi-controller-deluxe does work this time.

Also, I'd like to state that while people might be frightened to start coding, whatever language it might be, having the opportunity to add functionality to a program does not mean it has to be a single layer (say just programming). The extension design could be multilayered with a simple interface for those who want it simple (in a sense boxes and cords with different meaning and so on) and digging deeper you could have semi-simple design (boxes [with simpler scripts written by the user] and cords) and ultimately in the end scripting all out.

I don't see why you couldn't use Max/MSP too (I know I do), but there's also the availability thing here. Python does not cost a dime, Max/MSP costs a hell of a lot (I'm glad I got mine with the student discount).

Coding in max/msp costs money. Using max/msp patches, plugins or applications is free.
Depending on how integration with max would be implemented, PD might be an option too and its free.
I prefer the option that has to most benefit.
Max and PD both have objects available that allow you to execute code in c++, python, java,...
Not to mention the fact that you can interface almost every piece of hardware with it.

Ah... Rampant speculation

15 days till MusikMesse.....

noisetonepause wrote:

Martyn wrote:Out of interest, why not? I know nothing about programming and really wish I did. I've been advised that if I were to learn It'd be best to start with Python becuse its capable of good things while being very simple, it still looks really intimidating to me though.

If you just want to do simple stuff you can probably learn Python and be very happy with it. A lot of people are. From what I've tried of it, though, it seems unappealing and kludgy compared to e.g. Scheme that I've used quite a bit.

Programming is hard and unrewarding for the first long while - after that it's just hard:)

Thanks for clarifying, it's a daunting prospect for somebody with little time for making music, let alone anything else.

If there is enough demand I can upload this somewhere as a high quality divx or something.. let me know

link: http://monolake.cosm.co.nz

Enjoy

-Tom

please mate if you have some time.....[/quote]

hoffman2k wrote:Ah... Rampant speculation

indeed. it'll probably be a vocoder object in max that will cost us $300 and take up 45Gb on your hard drive.


very interesting posts peeps, thanks!!

how can I make a vocoder with my coffee machine with OSC over ipx?


indeed, the final target will be: build our own hardware.

(I spent a lot of time today with python,live,max. indeed,a LOT of things are possible...a lot of things not possible with only midi between external soft and Live ... but... if I had my own hardware, I'd code another LiveOSCCallbacks.py in order to fill a LED matrix with clips Slots information if you know what I mean...it isn't as hard as it seemed to me when you know a little bit about OO programing.. .. but I won't be able to solder two cable together ... so////// )

thanks again to the OP for uploading the video, really informative and inspiring.

Bugger, it is python thats being used to provide the clip positions...

credits
Ralf Suckow: support, electronics, PIC firmware, ideas, dedication, component hunting
Jan Buchholz: python script & Live API
Schaeffer AG: front panel manufacturing
Thorsten Klose: MIDIBOX modules
Robert Henke: idea, concept, electronics, mechanical engineering, design, wiring miles of cable, MAX patching, gin & tonic.

Monodeck II is not for sale

It is easy to do that via telnet..
finally,I have little problems via OSC/udp from Max..
I'll swim yet in these concepts..
I'd like to build my own controller!!
I'm almost on this way !!

The Julien-o-Deck will be alive ! !

(seriously,it would be (or could be) my final target)