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Muffin, I'm agreeing with almost everything you are saying. *gasp!*
leisuremuffin wrote:first of all, i can't speak for anyone else you've been typing at in this thread, but i already said the dead robbers should be in jail.
Agreed.
are you willing to accept the risk that this ruling creates? The risk that every yahoo with a gun in Texas will now feel they have the right to use deadly force in a similar situation?
Everyone in Texas has pretty much always felt that way! Hell, some ride around with gun racks in their trucks! This ruling really does nothing to alter the existing attitudes. Something worth mentioning is the fact that, though Texans may love their guns, they actually don't use them to kill people all that much. At least not compared to the 25 other States that preceed them on this list:
http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mu ... er-100-000
Texas = #26. Not even in the top 10. (Worth noting that Wyoming, the original topic of this thread, comes in at a very hefty #4!)
California; which arguably has the toughest gun control laws in the country, coming in at a (un)respectable #30. Ouch!
I seriously doubt that neighbors all across Texas are suddenly going to go all Rambo on people just because of this ruling. Incidently, Texas isn't even in the top 20 of total gun ownership by State in this country. Another myth blown away.
career criminals? OK, if you say so.
I don't say so, their mile long records say so.
I don't care if they raped babies every day of the week before this. Horn didn't know if they did or not, and i think that is incredibly dangerous to rule that he has the right to shoot them dead IN THIS SITUATION with the information he had at the time of the shooting.
Agreed. I'm focusing on the two criminals. My beef comes with the almost unprecedented outpouring of grief, sorrow, and outrage that we've seen because two thieves got blown away. There seems to be genuine shock and anger. If one of these guys was my brother or father, I'd be mighty upset and devastated. I'd be pissed at Horn. I'd want him to do some jail time. I can honestly say, no bullshit, that I would ultimately blame my relative for making a seriously bad career choice.
What that motherfucker needed to do was stay in his house like the cops asked him to. He witnessed a ROBBERY, not a murder, rape, beating, kidnapping, or any attempt of such an act.
Don't agree. I for one feel some responsibility to be a good neighbor and citizen. I saw someone get out of my neighbors car at 1am last year. I could've stayed inside, but I ran out like a dumb fuck and yelled "Hey fucker!" He ran. No shots fired.
It would have been pretty cool if he had subdued these guys without firing a shot. As I've said, he would have been a hero all around (and seriously pissed off the Gun Control lobby).
I would have an entirely different opinion if these men were armed or appeared to intend to do severe physical harm to Horn or anyone else. Then i believe he has the right to kill these guys.
Agreed.
The issues of race here are SPECULATIVE, they are just a nice add-ons to the fuck pile of the main issue. He should not be allowed to shoot those people dead regardless of his race or theirs. But, it is fair for me to SPECULATE that if the situation was the same, and the races reversed, the law would be interperated differently. just remember that these are two seperate parts of my argument if you're going to argue back...
Agreed, and it's totally fair for you to speculate on the race issue. I would also say that if all parties in this matter were white, we would not be having this discussion because it would have barely made the local news - let alone national. Who cares about 3 Texan crackers, anyway? I believe that with all my heart, as well as I believe in your premise that the ruling would have gone down differently if the shooter was latino or black.
That's another part of my anger over this issue. What should be a dialogue about crime in this country becomes instead a Giant Clusterfuck over Redneck White People, Latinos, Gun Control Laws, and Illegal Immigrants. God forbid we should ever stay focused on one issue for fucks sake. Nope, every fucking activist group has to come out of the woodwork to stake their claims in this Bullshit Fest.
Another thing that's not being reported widely is the dismay felt in the Illegal Immigrant Rights community over this shooting. They fucking HATE stories like this because they know it only fuels the fire of prejudice that they are fighting to overcome. There is a very good reason that Illegal Immigrant Rights groups haven't spoken out about this much.
In fact, as long as we are speculating here: If a group of hard working illegals were inside partying with Joe Horn (hey, it's a stretch, but you never know!), and knew these criminals were fellow illegals, THEY probably would have gone out and beat these guys to a pulp for fucking things up and not making an honest living.
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