Richard Dawkins: The God Delusion.

rsarja · Post by **rsarja** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:28 am

Ableton,

Please do somthing to moderate your forum. These morons are destroying it
for everyone. Let me tell you something that will work.
Only registered product owners should have access to this site. You enter your
product key to register. The general public will still be able to view it as read only.

shtreimel · Post by **shtreimel** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:30 am

Ok, so I'm in the gym doing cardio, and flipping b/w the ottawa/toronto game (f'ing Habs lost again tonight) and CNN. And Larry King dedicates his whole show to "THE SECRET". King claims THE SECRET is spreading across the globe like wild fire. WTF is THE SECRET? Ok, I'm off on a google adventure....

pilcrow · Post by **pilcrow** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:08 am

rsarja wrote:Ableton,

Please do somthing to moderate your forum. These morons are destroying it
for everyone. Let me tell you something that will work.
Only registered product owners should have access to this site. You enter your
product key to register. The general public will still be able to view it as read only.

heh. I'm pretty sure the goofiest and most prolific posters are registered users. I know I am.

Here's a tip: Don't click on the topics you're not interested in.

And thanks for the bump!

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:13 am

shtreimel wrote:Ok, so I'm in the gym doing cardio, and flipping b/w the ottawa/toronto game (f'ing Habs lost again tonight) and CNN. And Larry King dedicates his whole show to "THE SECRET". King claims THE SECRET is spreading across the globe like wild fire. WTF is THE SECRET? Ok, I'm off on a google adventure....

The secret is that there are REAL news stories out there that Larry never considers. The guy's a pop culture softball old fart.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:56 am

shtreimel wrote:Ok, so I'm in the gym doing cardio, and flipping b/w the ottawa/toronto game (f'ing Habs lost again tonight) and CNN. And Larry King dedicates his whole show to "THE SECRET". King claims THE SECRET is spreading across the globe like wild fire. WTF is THE SECRET? Ok, I'm off on a google adventure....

The Secret is new age crap, basically pop psychology and pseudo eastern mysticism thrown together blaming the individual for every bad thing that happens to them. The concept being we bring negative energy into our lives, but amplified to include physical real world events like poverty etc. I'm sure you'll see right through it.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:18 am

pilcrow wrote:OK, in hopes of pushing this thread closer to the magic 100-page mark, and out of curiosity, I have a question. And I don't know the answer, I'm not spoiling for an argument--I'm just curious:

What do evolutionary biologists claim is the reason that "faith" or belief in God has evolved or come about? i.e., a large number of people since the dawn of time have believed in some form of god and practiced some form of religion.

People like Dawkins posit that an evolutionary equation underlies pretty much everything, right? i.e., is this or that physical or mental characteristic advantageous from an evolutionary perspective or not? If it's advantageous, it'll stick around. If not, it'll go away.

What do the theorists believe is the evolutionary advantage of religious belief?

I only know what I believe, not evolutionary biologists etc.
I think it's just a simple matter of leisure time. We have the luxury of being a very successful organism, we have hours every day where we can do nothing and still survive. Though disease etc. wasted us at 45 or so up till last century, we have been a successful animal for at least a hundred thousand years. We at some point decided on a tribal level to glorify the insane child, and treat him as gifted, given him the title of witch doctor, and he's in turn told us how our dead relatives are doing. With leisure time the questions come, "What is the sun? Why does it get dark? What happens to me when I die?" No real answer can be found to these questions 50 thousand years ago. So stories are made up that seem plausible. This son of god Apollo rides a chariot with a ball of fire in it from one side to the other every day.
Why is religion a necessary evolutionary process? Probably because even though we are successful we are still afraid of death, or maybe because we are successful we have more time to ponder death. Either way, we spend too much of our time obsessed with death, fear of other people, either as individual psychos, or as organizations that are "evil". We have created a threat to out existence when we should have none, probably due to ancient hurts and recent traumas.
Think about it, in modern times there should be no need to worry, but now it's all ideology and different forms of indoctrination that keep people moving towards violent confrontation.
The analogy to me is of a house cat bolting for no reason, just out of the need to be alert programmed into their instincts, at this point religion is a way of dealing with the loss of a family, and cultural tribe. people are disconnected but in constant contact with each other. religion can offer a sense of family.

Shooting for 100!

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:46 am

At any moment one can be free of anything. After that, one is completely in charge of their course in life. What one thinks about, is what one is.

It cannot be disputed. Regardless of any religion at all. We chose every step of our course. Some work the next step, some just let it happen.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:41 am

knotkranky wrote:At any moment one can be free of anything. After that, one is completely in charge of their course in life. What one thinks about, is what one is.

It cannot be disputed. Regardless of any religion at all. We chose every step of our course. Some work the next step, some just let it happen.

Again, that works only if you are talking about a leisure class society, people in a war zone would have all kinds of valid reasons to disagree with that line of thinking, they're called "bullets".
Now it can be argued that if everybody at once decided to to let peace happen, then peace would happen, but it simply doesn't work without a majority of people thinking the same thing. Again outside influences can and do control a persons ability to feel safe.

Charles Manson insists that he's less of a prisoner than the reporter interviewing him, which is all well and good, that he keeps a good attitude, but the reporter with his rigid values and starched shirts etc. walks out of the prison after the interview, and Manson walks back to solitary confinement in a maximum security prison.

Also, and I mean no offense by this, but I would love to see you tell that to someone who survived the concentration camps. They probably would be polite, but only because they know that you have no idea how bad things can get, and what it's like.

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:34 am

Also, and I mean no offense by this, but I would love to see you tell that to someone who survived the concentration camps. They probably would be polite, but only because they know that you have no idea how bad things can get, and what it's like.

Yet it appears you understand well enough.

I would never tell a concentration camp victim anything of the sort. But I would be very interested in talking to them on how they survived.
I think you would be surprised what was in many of their minds during their ordeal. In that case, I am the student
on how they found sanity in such chaos. I don't see them agreeing with me, I see myself agreeing with them.

What about you and me. What's our excuse?

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:15 am

knotkranky wrote:What about you and me. What's our excuse?

I offer no excuses. I don't suffer from a guilty conscience. I have never quite understood why some do? The only guilt I hold is that which is bestowed upon me by the outside world, and in that respect I agree with you. I choose not to be guilty.

I'm just not fond of absolute value judgments in regards to peoples moods etc. I don't believe that we fully create our circumstances, it's to me an excuse for the inequality of wealth and comfort levels you see between classes and nations.

In a leisure class society, owning your stress etc. is appropriate, but it makes no sense whatsoever when you put it in circumstances of life and death. It's a blaming of the victim to a degree in those circumstances, when for instance the concentration camp survivor in my opinion owes no explanation as to how they survived. None of us could fathom it, and have simply not had to feel that kind of subjugation, any implication of responsibility for their mood or behavior is beyond my comprehension.

As far as communication etc. between you and me, I hold no anger. You have a different view on life than I do, and if it angers or frustrates you that I disagree, then stop wording your opinion as fact. I'm not disagreeing with you to be contrary etc. I sincerely don't buy into the same belief system you do.
I'm entertained by this debate, and hold no grudges.

Seyser Koze · Post by **Seyser Koze** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:54 am

Whereas I still hold that all religious people are fucking lunatics.They don't know that of course, as is the way with lunacy, so continue to carry on "normal" lives in a cloud of pretend sanity whilst the rest of us look on with distrust.

On the plus side, this weeks overwhelming vote in the house of commons in favour of total house of lords reform by:

a) ensuring that heriditary peers are kicked out asap.
b) All representatives are elected by the public.

I am happy. It means no church representation as a matter of course in our parliament.

About fucking time. The revolution is coming. Your time of unjust power is nearly over in the UK.

Hail the revolution!

spiral · Post by **spiral** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:04 am

viva le resolution

NorthernMonkey · Post by **NorthernMonkey** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:05 am

Seyser Koze wrote:Whereas I still hold that all religious people are fucking lunatics.They don't know that of course, as is the way with lunacy, so continue to carry on "normal" lives in a cloud of pretend sanity whilst the rest of us look on with distrust.

On the plus side, this weeks overwhelming vote in the house of commons in favour of total house of lords reform by:

a) ensuring that heriditary peers are kicked out asap.
b) All representatives are elected by the public.

I am happy. It means no church representation as a matter of course in our parliament.

About fucking time. The revolution is coming. Your time of unjust power is nearly over in the UK.

Hail the revolution!

Unfortunately it doesn't mean shit yet, it was just a vote backing a Lords reform, it'll be stretched out for years. Sooner the better for me though.

Seyser Koze · Post by **Seyser Koze** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:31 am

Yep...they'll string it out for sure. But at least the change is coming.

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:42 am

rsarja wrote:Ableton,

Please do somthing to moderate your forum. These morons are destroying it
for everyone. Let me tell you something that will work.
Only registered product owners should have access to this site. You enter your
product key to register. The general public will still be able to view it as read only.

Hey, I've been using this crack for years they cant stop me now!

Not a crack of ableton you understand, just crack.

Ah lets get back to making baby jesus cry eh.
Makes me laugh the amount of time I spend solving Live issues for people here, I mean it is a bit silly. Then some freak with 16 posts says we are timewasters. OK tool rack up a few actual support posts yourself then start criticising from out of the blue eh.